Poekin;2780108; said:
NLS is too small............14 inch dovi have no interest n even there Jumbo food.
Dainichi vs NLS. Let's have a real discussion on which is best!
- Thread starter bobgobucks
- Start date
NLS is too small............14 inch dovi have no interest n even there Jumbo food.
I think misunderstand my comment on Mcdonalds. McDonalds food is still grade A. The best standard given to food. However it is still not the same as specialty food. The food farms use still have to give growth the fish and give it good quality or they will not sell their stock. You assumed that McDonalds is bad. I worked for the corporation for a time. Perhaps McDonalds is a bad anology for someone who has not worked for the corporation. I was also not comparing the number of food sold. I was having you consider the quality. Now before jumping and saying that I am saying it is poor quality, You assume that McDonald's is bad quality. Again I state they sell highest grade A food. However there is still different ingredits that can be used that make a huge difference. Which of their food did you use? That will help me in understanding it.
I missed where you stated the name of the food. I thought you were talking about general food used with fishfarms. If the food is as good as people say, then I will buy a bit and do a test to see if I like it, for my use. From what I could find on the tropical fish pellets, they use a lot of soy and wheat as their first ingredits.
My own question for everyone: This leads to my next question on this topic. In conversation with a company they brought up the idea of using land based plant matter. Since fish evolved in water and grew eating totally different plant material how well can they break down this material. Humans who have been eating wheat and soy for far long than tropical fish, still find people who are unable to break down these materials. Is this plant matter the best to use for fish?
Of course NLS, Dainichi and most others use this matter in their foods. I am just wondering.
I missed where you stated the name of the food. I thought you were talking about general food used with fishfarms. If the food is as good as people say, then I will buy a bit and do a test to see if I like it, for my use. From what I could find on the tropical fish pellets, they use a lot of soy and wheat as their first ingredits.
My own question for everyone: This leads to my next question on this topic. In conversation with a company they brought up the idea of using land based plant matter. Since fish evolved in water and grew eating totally different plant material how well can they break down this material. Humans who have been eating wheat and soy for far long than tropical fish, still find people who are unable to break down these materials. Is this plant matter the best to use for fish?
Of course NLS, Dainichi and most others use this matter in their foods. I am just wondering.
I use NLS almost exclusively. Nothing I've tried provides better coloration, growth, and breeding conditioning. There may be some similar foods, but I won't mess with my results until something very compelling comes along.
Do you mean "Jumbo" as in their Jumbo Fish Formula? If so, there is a much larger size you might like. It is a floating variety that is larger than the large Hikari pellets.reverse;2791308; said:
I also prefer NLS. 
As much as I try to stay out of these types of "who's got the biggest" discussions, some wise guy has to always send me the link.
There seems to be a bit of confusion with regards to pellet sizes etc, so hopefully I can clear that up.
NLS comes in sizes that vary from .5 mm, to 7.5 mm. The 7.5 mm pellet is suitable for an adult arowana so take it from there. While the basic ingredients are very similar in all of the New Life products, there are subtle differences in a number of the formulas. Some formulas have higher protein/fat content, some contain a much greater inclusion rate of garlic (and yes, some people do find that those formulas stink - TherA , Surface Feeder and the flakes), others such as their Koi formulas contain a large inclusion of wheat germ as carp/koi require a higher vitamin E content than most species. Also, some of this falls under proprietary information, and will never be spelled out in black & white on the label.
Beyond doing the odd trade show, New Life does no form of advertising, none. They used to run a small ad in the TFH magazine, but no longer even do that. Pablo prefers to put his money where he feels it's most important, in his product.
And just for the record, I didn't write the following article on South Antarctic Krill Meal. It's a bit more involved than just adding color to a fish, and it's also very expensive.
http://www.aquafeed.com/article.php?id=439§ionid=5
With regards to farm feeds, some commercial farms feed no name low cost feeds, others have their farm feeds made to their own specs. Either way, they are indeed lower quality, lower cost feeds, as no commercial fish farm can afford to feed super premium foods to tens of thousands of hungry fish. But, those fish are exposed to plenty of sunshine, natural algae, and numerous bugs, nymphs, flies etc that land in the ponds, which do help balance out the lower cost feeds. Sunshine alone seems to bring out the color in fish, even when on lower quality feed. Last but not least, commercial farms aren't in the business of being overly concerned about the longevity of their breeders, they aren't pets, or "show" fish.
They are grown for one purpose, and one purpose only.
Unless one is comparing total digestibility, feed conversion ratios, amino acid & fatty acid profiles, etc, stating that one food gave as good or better results than another, doesn't mean a whole lot. I'm quite certain that there are 100's of thousands of consumers that swear by Wardley's, and millions of dog owners that swear by Purina dog chow. While there will always be a place for low budget foods, you're only kidding yourself if you think there isn't a difference between these types of feed, and the super premium brands.
Are they worth the price point difference? That's up to each individual to decide.
The fact that someone would promote a product that is chalk full of grains & grain by-products, such as dehulled soybean meal, wheat germ meal, wheat flour, corn gluten, feeding oatmeal, potato protein, and wheat gluten, pretty much sums up in mind how little they understand about fish nutrition. All dry foods require a binding agent such as wheat flour, if they didn't contain any binding agents they would simply crumble into powder. The trick is limiting the binding agents to as little as humanly possible.
You'll see the exact same thing in dry dog foods, those that are loaded with low cost starch fillers, and those that use only fresh premium grade raw ingredients, with total starch inclusion rates below 20%. The vast majority of tropical fish simply cannot assimilate these types of ingredients when used in excessive amounts, any better than a dog can, so take a guess where they eventually end up? And in bloat sensitive species, guess what triggers gastrointestinal issues and/or blockage?
With regards to cost;
5.5 lb's Dainichi Color FX - MSRP $112.50 US dollars
5 lb's NLS - MSRP $49.99 US dollars
http://nycichlids.com/another-food-question-t5069.html
Read that thread from start to finish, then ask yourself why none of the reps from Dainichi, that stated they would; "go head to head with anyone on this board, or any other board, concerning the quality of their pellet, over any other pellet on the market" .......... wouldn't attempt to so much as even challenge a single comment that I made in that thread. Hmmmmmm.
I have nothing against Dainichi, or any other company that sells pet food, nor do I care what brand/brands people choose to feed their fish, but certain facts remain facts, no matter how capable someone is at putting their spin on things or how much they spend on advertising their products. Who do you think ultimately pays for those full page glossy advertisements in the various trade magazines?
HTH
As much as I try to stay out of these types of "who's got the biggest" discussions, some wise guy has to always send me the link.
There seems to be a bit of confusion with regards to pellet sizes etc, so hopefully I can clear that up.
NLS comes in sizes that vary from .5 mm, to 7.5 mm. The 7.5 mm pellet is suitable for an adult arowana so take it from there. While the basic ingredients are very similar in all of the New Life products, there are subtle differences in a number of the formulas. Some formulas have higher protein/fat content, some contain a much greater inclusion rate of garlic (and yes, some people do find that those formulas stink - TherA , Surface Feeder and the flakes), others such as their Koi formulas contain a large inclusion of wheat germ as carp/koi require a higher vitamin E content than most species. Also, some of this falls under proprietary information, and will never be spelled out in black & white on the label.
Beyond doing the odd trade show, New Life does no form of advertising, none. They used to run a small ad in the TFH magazine, but no longer even do that. Pablo prefers to put his money where he feels it's most important, in his product.
And just for the record, I didn't write the following article on South Antarctic Krill Meal. It's a bit more involved than just adding color to a fish, and it's also very expensive.
http://www.aquafeed.com/article.php?id=439§ionid=5
With regards to farm feeds, some commercial farms feed no name low cost feeds, others have their farm feeds made to their own specs. Either way, they are indeed lower quality, lower cost feeds, as no commercial fish farm can afford to feed super premium foods to tens of thousands of hungry fish. But, those fish are exposed to plenty of sunshine, natural algae, and numerous bugs, nymphs, flies etc that land in the ponds, which do help balance out the lower cost feeds. Sunshine alone seems to bring out the color in fish, even when on lower quality feed. Last but not least, commercial farms aren't in the business of being overly concerned about the longevity of their breeders, they aren't pets, or "show" fish.
They are grown for one purpose, and one purpose only.
Unless one is comparing total digestibility, feed conversion ratios, amino acid & fatty acid profiles, etc, stating that one food gave as good or better results than another, doesn't mean a whole lot. I'm quite certain that there are 100's of thousands of consumers that swear by Wardley's, and millions of dog owners that swear by Purina dog chow. While there will always be a place for low budget foods, you're only kidding yourself if you think there isn't a difference between these types of feed, and the super premium brands.
Are they worth the price point difference? That's up to each individual to decide.
The fact that someone would promote a product that is chalk full of grains & grain by-products, such as dehulled soybean meal, wheat germ meal, wheat flour, corn gluten, feeding oatmeal, potato protein, and wheat gluten, pretty much sums up in mind how little they understand about fish nutrition. All dry foods require a binding agent such as wheat flour, if they didn't contain any binding agents they would simply crumble into powder. The trick is limiting the binding agents to as little as humanly possible.
You'll see the exact same thing in dry dog foods, those that are loaded with low cost starch fillers, and those that use only fresh premium grade raw ingredients, with total starch inclusion rates below 20%. The vast majority of tropical fish simply cannot assimilate these types of ingredients when used in excessive amounts, any better than a dog can, so take a guess where they eventually end up? And in bloat sensitive species, guess what triggers gastrointestinal issues and/or blockage?
With regards to cost;
5.5 lb's Dainichi Color FX - MSRP $112.50 US dollars
5 lb's NLS - MSRP $49.99 US dollars
http://nycichlids.com/another-food-question-t5069.html
Read that thread from start to finish, then ask yourself why none of the reps from Dainichi, that stated they would; "go head to head with anyone on this board, or any other board, concerning the quality of their pellet, over any other pellet on the market" .......... wouldn't attempt to so much as even challenge a single comment that I made in that thread. Hmmmmmm.
I have nothing against Dainichi, or any other company that sells pet food, nor do I care what brand/brands people choose to feed their fish, but certain facts remain facts, no matter how capable someone is at putting their spin on things or how much they spend on advertising their products. Who do you think ultimately pays for those full page glossy advertisements in the various trade magazines?
HTH
Holy smokes!
I just got done reading that forum thread from NY Cichlids! Expansive to say the least. If nothing else, you can certainly get edumacated on NLS food there. You will not gain much enlightenment regarding Dainichi though as they avoided jumping in on that like the plague. I am still hoping that they will give an accounting. I am digging the stories about Pablo Teepoot, tho. His book is reallyhelpful too.
I just got done reading that forum thread from NY Cichlids! Expansive to say the least. If nothing else, you can certainly get edumacated on NLS food there. You will not gain much enlightenment regarding Dainichi though as they avoided jumping in on that like the plague. I am still hoping that they will give an accounting. I am digging the stories about Pablo Teepoot, tho. His book is reallyhelpful too.
Hey Zerelli you must belong to LTFF as well whats up buddy did you lose anything in the ice storm..
Ex Large Fish Formula. I just buy it in the huge buckets (along with a couple of other varieties) several times a year.reverse;2794679; said:what is it's name? I have some Jumbo that my dovi will not even look at
All my large fish take it just fine, but as with anything you may have to convert them from what they are accustomed to.
I looked at some photos on the Dainichi site...... Before & after types...... Funny how the color of the fish AND the color of the backgrounds changed in the after photos! ; )
