4300 Gallon Plywood Build (3600+ Take 2)

cvermeulen · Feb 25, 2012

YB - I've taken your point and I'll pursue this discussion privately with GT. However there's one thing I'd like to address, since it's been called out publicly.

greenterra said:
Not trying to be rude but I remember someone getting water marks, blemishing in the surface of their last layer because of not having the correct addition of 'wax in Styrene' and then covering it with PVA to try and get the last coat to cure correctly. The end solution was to paint over it with Krylon Fusion paint. Sound familiar? If that does not give an example of why my statement is relevant, I don't know what is.

Yes I got water marks on my tank after my first test fill. I still don't know why, but it could have been related to the resin not being cured completely before I did my test fill. *could have*. I don't know why this happened 100%, and I didn't like the cloudy look so I painted over it with krylon. This was a cosmetic problem and hasn't affected the integrity of the tank in any way I can tell after 3 years filled. If I'd used waxed gelcoat, presumably this wouldn't have happened.

One more time. For anyone still reading this exchange; I am not suggesting that Polyester is superior to epoxy. I am pointing out that it is a perfectly viable option, used in quite a few private and commercially constructed fish containers with no stories that I've found of toxicity. Greenterra obviously has reasons for liking epoxy better; and though I disagree with many of his statements I'll not belabour the point. I've used both for quite a variety of projects, and I have done extensive research, including university courses and lab work on how composites work, and I happen to think that epoxy is nice, but polyester works better for me and my wallet.

nolapete · Feb 25, 2012

Well, I'll put an end to that derail thought. I'll put the Nolapete stamp of approval on it. It is relevant and helpful discussion.

On the home front, I pumped out the remaining water today and soaked up what was left by dragging a towel across the bottom then wringing it into a 5 gallon bucket. Tuesday night the wife will be out of town and Ken will be over to work on the tank and some other things we're working on at my house.

Zari · Feb 25, 2012

I agree, very informative discussion. I thought polyester resins weren't fish safe, now I know.

Redearsunfish · Feb 27, 2012

I for one truly hope you overcome any obstacles you have come across and have a great and epic tank in the end. Sending positive energy and thoughts your way!

Yanbbrox · Feb 28, 2012

cvermeulen said:
YB - I've taken your point and I'll pursue this discussion privately with GT. However there's one thing I'd like to address, since it's been called out publicly.

Fair enough, it's a shame because I was enjoying the debate but more importantly people where sharing real life experiences using products.

The trouble is that there is a lot of rubbish posted when it comes to fish keeping, I almost never visit the koi forums I used to because people are just stuck in there ways and have been from day one. There are two camps do it MR X's way or the dark side, either way you'll get slated and the good genuine helpful people get fed up and move on.

Now moving on to fish tank construction. Sorry if I'm derailing. I see almost no point in even trying to construct one yourself unless your looking at 1000g or more but that's not the point.

Here there are plenty of 'here's my new plywood tank' picture one: wood being joined together, picture two: something being rolled onto the wood, picture three: window in, picture four: filled, picture five: fish! and never seen again.

The details are always never as simple as that, that's why I loved the posts from people who've been there and done that and ran these sort of tanks for many years. Old school plywood guys/gals that can offer words of wisdom along the way. Even others, VLDesign comes to mind with a huge amount of info along the way, what worked, what failed, why it failed, what fixed it etc.

Anyway I'm rambling a bit. The one question I would like to ask is why everyone goes down these routes and just doesn't just build a box, brace it then fiber glass the whole thing and have done????

Also sorry to Pete for the derail and thanks for keeping this thread updated I wish the best of luck in finishing this simply daunting project.

nolapete · Feb 28, 2012

I think the reason that most people don't build a box and fiberglass it are the two reasons for my innovations and reasons not to. The main reason is, like myself, they simply don't have the woodworking and fiberglass skills at a level to feel confident that the thing will stay together. The other reason is that they want to be creative and maybe come up with something that no one else has done or simply use their own ideas instead of just following a cookie cutter approach.

JohnG's adaptation of my design to use the 2x4s on the floor is something I'd use the next time I build one. My design was adapted from ideas I saw in Anythingfish's and necro's designs, but clearly it is different than either one did. VLDesign's original build was based on someone else's and his latest was an adaptation of mine.

You might have heard one or two people ever mention Dow 795 before my build, but since then it has been in the forefront. I learned about it from my friend Jack who has used it for over 20 years when he had the 135,000 gallon shark tank in his night club and 105,000 gulf of mexico tank in his restaurant. Both of those were similar JohnPTC's, but on a much larger scale. He also used pond liners with hard rubber gaskets and Dow 795 in his 2 2600 gallon plywood tanks at his house. VLDesign's latest tank is almost identical to how they are with 3 windows and the length.

Max ACR coming into play has provided us with a consistent successful coating as seen in JohnG's builds and VLDesign's latest. I think it's a better solution than Pond Armor or Liquid Rubber, but those are viable as is what CV has said with polyester resin topcoated with Sweetwater paint. Everyone has choices to make with what they feel comfortable working with. If no one tries it, then we won't know for sure that it will work or not.

Nonetheless, as we have more and more consistent success, our MFK community grows stronger and more confident in building tanks that the Average Joe with a chop saw and a drill can build. Our formula for success is becoming less hit or miss.

cvermeulen · Feb 28, 2012

Yanbbrox said:
The one question I would like to ask is why everyone goes down these routes and just doesn't just build a box, brace it then fiber glass the whole thing and have done????

Yeah Pete is right, everyone want sto be creative. Lots of times folks just want to use what's available to them as well, instead of going to the extra effort or cost of doing it exactly like one person or another.

Something worth noting is a fellow here with his 1200gal build that he completely lined with several layers of epoxy and fiberglass and still has leak issues. I think his name is tor-erik. The smoking gun there I think are some unsupported seams in his tank bottom, but nonetheless it illustrates that just any old box won't work even with 100% glass reinforcement.

Anyway... now I'm rambling.

Yanbbrox · Feb 28, 2012

Thanks for the input guys, interesting information.

You are of course both right if people didn't try different things it would certainly be less interesting around here and if people through there imaginations are trying out different routes can get to, although not 100% bullet proof but close enough to, it will inspire others to try this without the heartache caused by problems along the way.

Any onto concrete block tanks next..... :ROFL:

Seriously though, I did think about trying a plywood build with the new tank but it was simply not big enough for the size to try one. When I roughly priced up some materials it worked out dearer, add in an annoyed wife whilst I would have been doing it, god know the extra money I would have to throw at it along the way and although any tank can break, the peace of mind of having it professionally built is somewhat reassuring.... Although I'm sure not as fun :nilly:

Cheers guys I'll move along now.

greenterra · Feb 28, 2012

As well as not having the ability/expertise or wanting to try something different as already stated. I also see the cost factor being the #1 issue in a lot of cases. Many go down the Ply tank route as they feel they can get a larger tank for much cheaper. This in itself drives many to experiment with cheaper alternatives. With experimentation, comes a higher percent of failures as should probably be expected. Without experimentation though, there would never be other viable options discovered. Personally, I don't look to ply tanks as a cheaper alternative. I just see it as a way to own a larger than normal tank. In saying that, if it cost me the same to build a simple 8'x2'x2' out of ply/fibreglass as it would to purchase an all glass tank, I would still build it as I know the insulation properties of the ply/fiberglass tank will more than make up for it in energy savings heating the tank. One thing to note and this is with any product used. The one thing no manufacturer can control is operator error. The build cvermeulan pointed out shows this. With any product/method comes many tricks of the trade.

nolapete · Feb 28, 2012

My tank currently is around 85 cents per gallon US. That's better than the $1 per gallon sales the big box pet emporiums have.

Ken was over tonight and we have a plan. I'm not going to divulge the plan until the plan is executed. I believe it will work and Ken was emphatic about doing it, so I have to give the man a chance to do his idea. I will say it does not involve any kind of resin or fiberglass


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