Feedback on FW Refugium / WD Sump combo design

SoCalDiscus

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Aug 26, 2007
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Irvine, CA
www.socaldiscus.com
Hi All,

I'm in the design stage of building a new sump for a 100 gallon tank. I currently have a FW refugium on my planted discus tank, and we never have any nitrates (unless I wait a really long time between water changes), so I don't want to just do a wet/dry. I thought a combo might be fun. The reef people probably do these all the time, but I didn't see anything on MFK with this kind of design (I'm sure there is one somewhere).

So, any feedback would be appreciated. The background info and details are below the diagram. In my experience, people tend to like pictures first.



Background info:
Display Tank: 100g of water from inside dimensions.
Outside dimensions: 72x18x22

Plecos, cats, eels etc (dirty fish)

Under the stand, I have ~ 70" L x 14" W x 19" H to work with
Planning to find a 48" ~50 gallon tank that will fit.

Tank is not drilled (not sure if it is tempered), so planning on making 2 PVC overflows with durso type heads inside 2 corner overflow boxes. (most likely 1.25")

Each overflow should run up to 600 gph, and I am planning to run 2 QuietOne 3000's that should give me just less than 600 gph each at a 4' head. My target is around +- 1000 gph for a 10x turnover, so the two pumps should get me there and provide redundancy.

Chamber 1: Thin pre-filter sock: Act as a strainer for the big stuff, but let some of the other small particulate through to where the plants and shrimp are. In my current setup, 2 shrimp have completely cleaned all of the mulm out of the sump, so some material settling will help to feed them. Also, the plants may be able to use some of the settling small particulate as fertilizer (maybe...)

Chamber 2: Either mud, or some other nutrient rich substrate for the plants. I will make the openings between the chambers big enough for the shrimp to move around freely to clean up. In my current setup, some material gets trapped at the bottom of chamber 1 that the shrimp can't get to. There may be a few small random fish in there too. I will use a piece of egg crate to keep shrimp and other fish out of the rest of the system. Using a vertical piece should keep anyone from getting stuck to it from any sort of suction that could come from screening just the smaller opening.

Chamber 3: Standard wet/dry setup with a drip plate, then filter floss, then bio-balls or scrubbies. I will attempt to get the 2/3 out 1/3 submerged ratio... but that might be difficult being that I have a limited height to work with and I need to make sure the pumps remain under water. The specifics will just have to be worked out when I have all the pieces.

Chamber 4: I'm debating about whether to use a divider between the WD output and the pump. I guess it would help to make sure the lower biomaterial never dries out... and creates a lower bound for the water level. But, if the water got lower than where the divider would be, the pumps would probably be starting to suck air anyway.

Question: Is there any specific reason that many of the WD chambers keep the biomaterial off the bottom other than for flow? I would think I could leave an inch gap between the bottom of the sump and the egg crate used to support the bio material and that should allow for flow, and let me use the space efficiently. I am hoping that I have a biomaterial volume of 14" L x 14" W x 10" H. I will work to maximize the height, but I'm not sure how much space the drip tray and floss will take up. So, this was my guess.

Comments:
I haven't built one of these before, but I have done a fair amount of reading here. (and I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night :grinno:) So, any feedback before I start building would be appreciated. As I have read on so many threads, the devil is in the details!

Dr. Joe and others, I would love to get your input.

Also, I have not yet found a tank so use, so if you happen to have an extra one that will fit with my space constraints please let me know.

-Eric
 

nfored

Fire Eel
MFK Member
Apr 4, 2008
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I have been thinking about something like this, let me know how this works out.
 

SoCalDiscus

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Aug 26, 2007
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Irvine, CA
www.socaldiscus.com
nfored;1916741; said:
I have been thinking about something like this, let me know how this works out.
I'll start a new thread when I begin construction. Should be within the next week or so. Tomorrow I am going to pick up the tank, assuming the measurements are as stated.

So, no one else has any comments on this?

This is MFK for heavens sake, I at least expected a "that is a dumb idea" or a "been there done that... that's old news" out of someone. Or at least a "That's not big enought!" :grinno: I'm feeling kind of lonely here.

For now I will interpret the lack of a response as indicating that those who looked found it generally uninteresting, and that means I should be on the right track, or didn't totally !@#$#% it up yet.

-E
 

salsa

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Feb 14, 2007
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In Your Imagination
Also, your water level in your bio media bay will be as high as this partition, so in order for your water level to be shown at its drawn height, this partition will need to be taller.

socaldiscus_wdsump-1.jpg
 

salsa

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Feb 14, 2007
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In Your Imagination
SoCalDiscus;1915436; said:
Hi All,

Under the stand, I have ~ 70" L x 14" W x 19" H to work with
Planning to find a 48" ~50 gallon tank that will fit.
a 55 is going to be very snug, especially when its filter maintence time, with only 2 inches above the sump. I would go for a 40 breeder, same base but shorter.
 

Dr Joe

Feeder Fish
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Mar 8, 2006
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"Question: Is there any specific reason that many of the WD chambers keep the biomaterial off the bottom other than for flow? I would think I could leave an inch gap between the bottom of the sump and the egg crate used to support the bio material and that should allow for flow, and let me use the space efficiently. I am hoping that I have a biomaterial volume of 14" L x 14" W x 10" H. I will work to maximize the height, but I'm not sure how much space the drip tray and floss will take up. So, this was my guess."

A) The space is for fine detritus buildup over a long period of time. 1/2" of clear space is fine.


"I'll start a new thread when I begin construction. Should be within the next week or so."

Keep it in this thread so the original pix are with it and people don't get confused.


"So, no one else has any comments on this?
This is MFK for heavens sake, I at least expected a "that is a dumb idea" or a "been there done that... that's old news" out of someone. Or at least a "That's not big enought!" :grinno: I'm feeling kind of lonely here.
For now I will interpret the lack of a response as indicating that those who looked found it generally uninteresting, and that means I should be on the right track, or didn't totally !@#$#% it up yet."

Or you could take into consideration the post had only been up for a day :ROFL:.

Pace yourself, some of us are slow readers :ROFL:

You do need to revise the baffle heights
to get the water levels right as the overflows will only flow what the pump returns.

Suggestion... use pea sized gravel for the plants as you want then to use the nutrients from the water (not artificial nutrients from the mud (which would have to be replenished and would enter the water column)).

Oh, and answer salsa's question.

Keep up the good work and have patience with us slower folk.

Dr Joe

.
 

Dr Joe

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Mar 8, 2006
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salsa;1920707; said:
a 55 is going to be very snug, especially when its filter maintence time, with only 2 inches above the sump. I would go for a 40 breeder, same base but shorter.
If it's not easy to access it's not going to get done! This is a Murphy's sidebar law.
 

SoCalDiscus

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Aug 26, 2007
121
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Irvine, CA
www.socaldiscus.com
Hi Salsa, Dr. Joe, and Alan;

Thanks for getting back to me. I didn't intend to be too pushy with my comment about being lonely, I just wanted a cheeky/fun bump. So, again, thank you for the replies.

I am going to go down the list and reply to each question/suggestion in order to keep things hopefully simple and straightforward. It's going to take me some time, so I will post this now and get working the the replies.

-Eric
 
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