Bubble nester for temperate/unheated summer pond

[arielucidates]

Are there any somewhat peaceful bubble nester species that would be suitable for a 250g heavily planted summer (June-August) pond in the Midwest, with small fish such as Rice fish and White Clouds? Near Lake Michigan, zone 5b, so average day time temps are mid 70s-mid 80s, night time temps generally in the 60s. The pool is next to a south facing wall, but is shaded in the afternoon, so there should be a bit of a microclimate, keeping it warmer at night and not spiking too much in the afternoon from sunlight.

I think average temp will be low 70s, but the fish must be capable of surviving mid-high 60s in case we end up with colder weather than normal at some point.

The only thing that comes to mind are Paradise fish, which I don't think are particularly peaceful, and can be predatory. I've read of a lot of people who keep Bettas outdoors in the summer in this type climate (for breeding), but then everywhere says that they need mid to high 70s so I'm not sure, because that seems a contradiction.

 

[arielucidates]

I'm considering Macropodus ocellatus, instead of normal Paradise fish, since they are smaller, more peaceful, and IMO more attractive. They are also rarer which would help for selling to LFS if they breed.

Or I just may but some nice bettas in a jar from a shop, since I think they are usually farmed in Florida and can take cooler temps. Everyone always says that's not ideal but you see them sitting in shops at 68-70 all the time.

 

[jjohnwm]

I've never kept Bettas...in almost 55 years of fish-keeping...but I will point out that the fact that you see them living at 70F in stores means literally nothing. I mean, you also see them in tiny cups in the stores; that certainly doesn't mean that it's an ideal or acceptable way to keep them. All it really proves is that Bettas are tough little fish.

I've also not had many Macropodus aside from the typically seen opercularis. They are comfortable at temperatures even cooler than you expect to see, and while somewhat aggressive in small tanks they are much more tolerant of tankmates when kept in larger enclosures like ponds. They are gorgeous, and very surface-oriented which makes them easier to appreciate when seen from above in a pond. They breed easily in a pond, and in a 300-gallon pond with maybe a couple males and a few more females they seem more interested in showing off to each other and pretty much ignore the other fish.

Their fry hatch out small; in a richly planted stock tank or pond they find enough microscopic food to easily get them through their first free-swimming days, but they are so tiny that many will be eaten by tankmates, of their own or other species. Some will survive...I always leave them alone and just let nature take its course...but if you are serious about maximum fry survivability you probably should forget about tankmates.

Thanks for bringing M.ocellatus up; I've never heard of them before, and they are stunning! And also apparently even more of a temperate fish. I am now officially looking out for some.

M.spechti (I think they were called M.concolor back when I tried them) didn't do well for me, likely because I expected them to be as cool-water-tolerant as M.opercularis. They're a little more southern and they seemed to struggle when my stock tanks got chilly. Bred a couple times, but left them outside maybe a little too late into the fall and lost entire spawns. My bad.

 

[arielucidates]

I've never kept Bettas...in almost 55 years of fish-keeping...but I will point out that the fact that you see them living at 70F in stores means literally nothing. I mean, you also see them in tiny cups in the stores; that certainly doesn't mean that it's an ideal or acceptable way to keep them. All it really proves is that Bettas are tough little fish.

I've also not had many Macropodus aside from the typically seen opercularis. They are comfortable at temperatures even cooler than you expect to see, and while somewhat aggressive in small tanks they are much more tolerant of tankmates when kept in larger enclosures like ponds. They are gorgeous, and very surface-oriented which makes them easier to appreciate when seen from above in a pond. They breed easily in a pond, and in a 300-gallon pond with maybe a couple males and a few more females they seem more interested in showing off to each other and pretty much ignore the other fish.

Their fry hatch out small; in a richly planted stock tank or pond they find enough microscopic food to easily get them through their first free-swimming days, but they are so tiny that many will be eaten by tankmates, of their own or other species. Some will survive...I always leave them alone and just let nature take its course...but if you are serious about maximum fry survivability you probably should forget about tankmates.

Thanks for bringing M.ocellatus up; I've never heard of them before, and they are stunning! And also apparently even more of a temperate fish. I am now officially looking out for some.

M.spechti (I think they were called M.concolor back when I tried them) didn't do well for me, likely because I expected them to be as cool-water-tolerant as M.opercularis. They're a little more southern and they seemed to struggle when my stock tanks got chilly. Bred a couple times, but left them outside maybe a little too late into the fall and lost entire spawns. My bad.

Bettas are definitely tough fish, but even tough tropical fish will just die outside their temperature range. Of course keeping them at a tolerable, but not ideal temp long term isn't a good idea, but I think the normal temp will likely be 70s, but need to be able to go high 70s(-low 80s?) at times and mid 60s at times.

But I would prefer Ocellatus. The smaller size and slightly more peaceful nature is a big plus over normal Paradise Fish, as is their scarcity for breeding. And since they are so cold hardy they honestly could probably stay in my very cold basement with my darters over winter. The problem is locating them! If you find them somewhere let me know!

 

[jjohnwm]

Bettas are definitely tough fish, but even tough tropical fish will just die outside their temperature range. Of course keeping them at a tolerable, but not ideal temp long term isn't a good idea, but I think the normal temp will likely be 70s, but need to be able to go high 70s(-low 80s?) at times and mid 60s at times.

Agree completely. I certainly wasn't suggesting that you try Bettas, or that they should be kept at those temperatures; quite the opposite, actually.

 

[Fishman Dave]

If you try macropodus I would certainly recommend the albino opercularis. Never found those to be overly predatory, even now my male lives in my guppy setup. The benefit of course is that they are highly visible in a pond environment although, being a surface bubble nest breeder this may be a disadvantage for predation themselves.