Why do my snails keep dying?

[skjl47]

Copper Pipes: The Silent Destroyer - Why They Corrode and How to Prevent Disaster - HomeFixMagic

Copper pipes have long been the material of choice for plumbing systems due to their durability, flexibility, and resistance to corrosion. However, under

homefixmagic.com

Hello; Found the above link. Has some interesting insights concerning copper water pipes. Two things stand out. One being the idea that too much solder when joining pipes can cause problems. Have any of the pipes been repaired lately?
The other is how the pH can affect the copper oxide layer. Made me think of the Flint Michigan issue with lead pipes. The lead is toxic but when used as a water pipe a layer forms on the inside of the water pipes. That layer coating protects the water by insulating the water from the lead pipe. Flint changed the way they treated the water which removed that protective layer and allowed lead to leach into the water. Seem things like high pH can do something similar to the copper oxide layer which lines the inside of copper pipes.
My long term plan is to replace the copper with Pex pipe. I already did so when I had to relocate an outside frost proof spigot. I used a shark -bite to attach the copper to the pex.
Now that I think of it the house i lived in and kept my first tanks back in 1959 also had copper pipes. I had snails then also.

Have you contacted the water company to see if they are doing anything different? You should be able to get a water quality report as well.

 

[skjl47]

What effect does Copper pipe have in a freshwater aquarium? | Aquarium Advice Forum Community

“Copper is incredibly toxic to inverts, including freshwater shrimp, crays, crabs, and snails. Indeed if you glance at any of the "get rid of snails"-type medications in the aquarium section of your LFS, you will see that most (if not all) of them use copper as the active ingredient.”

“The issue here is the fact that copper ions will slowly leach from the copper tubing into the water--the more acidic your water, the faster the leaching. Once there is copper in solution in your tank, it gets absorbed by the silicone sealant and then slowly re-released over time. So 5 years down the road, even if you haven't had that piece of copper in your tank in years, you might decide to add some ghost shrimp or whatever, and the next morning wake up to a bunch of dead carcasses. Copper in the aquarium is kind of like PCB's in the environment...once it is there, it takes forever-and-a-half to get rid of it.”

“I don't think fish are sensitive to copper in the same way that inverts are, so if you are 100% positive that you are never going to want anything other than fish in the tank, you are probably in fine shape.”

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Hello; My comments: Found the above link and copied one of the comments. I cannot support or discredit the comment. It does fit with what I have heard of over the years.

One point which caught my attention is the use of copper compounds as active ingredients in disease treatments and also dedicated to kill snails. Seems the stuff lingers.

 

[Caperguy99]

What effect does Copper pipe have in a freshwater aquarium? | Aquarium Advice Forum Community

“Copper is incredibly toxic to inverts, including freshwater shrimp, crays, crabs, and snails. Indeed if you glance at any of the "get rid of snails"-type medications in the aquarium section of your LFS, you will see that most (if not all) of them use copper as the active ingredient.”

“The issue here is the fact that copper ions will slowly leach from the copper tubing into the water--the more acidic your water, the faster the leaching. Once there is copper in solution in your tank, it gets absorbed by the silicone sealant and then slowly re-released over time. So 5 years down the road, even if you haven't had that piece of copper in your tank in years, you might decide to add some ghost shrimp or whatever, and the next morning wake up to a bunch of dead carcasses. Copper in the aquarium is kind of like PCB's in the environment...once it is there, it takes forever-and-a-half to get rid of it.”

“I don't think fish are sensitive to copper in the same way that inverts are, so if you are 100% positive that you are never going to want anything other than fish in the tank, you are probably in fine shape.”

……………………………………………………………………..

Hello; My comments: Found the above link and copied one of the comments. I cannot support or discredit the comment. It does fit with what I have heard of over the years.

One point which caught my attention is the use of copper compounds as active ingredients in disease treatments and also dedicated to kill snails. Seems the stuff lingers.

Hey, I think this may be it - when I first set up this tank, I was filling it direct from the tap. I later noticed that for the first few seconds, my tap water would read high in copper. So I started leaving my water run for a few minutes before water changes - which would reduce the amount of measurable copper to 0. However, this was a few years ago and I hadn’t noticed it since -

If that copper could stay in the tank somehow, as your piece suggests, I bet that’s exactly my problem. So even though my tank reads consistently 0, they are getting poisoned from that.

Would cuprisorb work to take that out, or is the tank just unsuitable for all inverts now?

 

[RyanScanner]

Maybe try a bucket of water and a sponge filter and heater with some guppy grass or whatever. Put 1 snail in see if it survives a week. If it does then put the betta in. Process of elimination. If both are fine after a week it’s the tank.

 

[tiger15]

A lot said was true. Copper is the most common indoor plumbing, along with lead or zinc alloy solder in pipe joints, can leak heavy metals into tap water. If the pH from the tap is above neutral, as required by city water regulations, the heavy metal leakage will not normally reach lethal level for invertebrate. That said, if you allow the water to sit stagnant in the pipe overnight or worst several days from vacation, the first flush will likely carry high concentration of heavy metals. So it’s best to flush the water for 10 minutes before filling up the tank. Heavy metals can also come from your source water, specially if you are on river water or shallow groundwater vulnerable to runoff pollution. The Safe Drinking Water Act set standards of metals in tap water. While the standards are protective of human consumption, they may not be safe enough for invertebrates.

 

[Caperguy99]

A lot said was true. Copper is the most common indoor plumbing, along with lead or zinc alloy solder in pipe joints, can leak heavy metals into tap water. If the pH from the tap is above neutral, as required by city water regulations, the heavy metal leakage will not normally reach lethal level for invertebrate. That said, if you allow the water to sit stagnant in the pipe overnight or worst several days from vacation, the first flush will likely carry high concentration of heavy metals. So it’s best to flush the water for 10 minutes before filling up the tank. Heavy metals can also come from your source water, specially if you are on river water or shallow groundwater vulnerable to runoff pollution. The Safe Drinking Water Act set standards of metals in tap water. While the standards are protective of human consumption, they may not be safe enough for invertebrates.

I think this might be exactly right, and my API copper test just isn’t picking it up.

I’ve started running Cuprisorb in the tank and ordered a Hanna copper test kit, so we’ll see if this is what’s going on. If I get down to 0.01 or below with the Cuprisorb I might try another snail in a few weeks. Stay tuned.