Applying Weldon 40 to a DIY Kreisel (Picture Heavy)

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Lythronax

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Dec 22, 2024
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Howdy!

For the last several years, I've been tonguing the idea of making my own kreisels. Local plastic fabricators are hesitant to make radiused bends, expensive, and looking to deal in extremely high volumes. It's somewhat of an ambitious pursuit, admittedly, and doubly so with my limited experience gluing acrylic lack of professional equipment. I'm looking to make these 15 gallon kreisels out of 1/2" thick acrylic - a bit overkill, sure, but I would like them to be robust, reliable, and preferably outlive me.

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In summary, I have been (fairly) successful in heat bending the acrylic to a form I have made, as shown above. This was, likely, the most difficult part. However, in bending the acrylic, there is some minor distortion. This is to be expected merely by the shape, as a consequence of the bend, the outer edge and inner are displaced to the tune of a few tenths of a millimeter. Not much, but significant enough to cause issues with solvent welding. I have attempted to sand the edges flush, but I can't seem to get them perfect - at least, not to the degree of precision needed for the capillary response to carry a solvent.

Screenshot 2025-02-18 085827.png

The intention is to sandwich the bent acrylic between two sheets, where it will be suspended, like shown here. Bracing will be added later for additional support. I understand that this is an extremely unusual way to bond acrylic - the best analogy I can think of would be bonding acrylic baffles in a sump.

However, when I attempt the typical "pin" method with Weldon 4 solvent, the aforementioned distortion allows for bubbles to form around the perimeter of the bend - a massive amount, at that. Beyond this, pulling the pins out causes the bent acrylic to glide around on the surface. Yuck.

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^ I don't quite trust this with even the small volume of 15 gallons of water it holds.

On the other hand, I can get fairly nice seams using Weldon 40. Now, I'm extremely messy with it. Don't judge too harshly, I'm not looking to make a profession out of this.

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I accomplish this by sanding the edge of the bent acrylic with 400 grit sandpaper (per the manufacturer's instructions) and applying a bead of Weldon 40 around the length of the acrylic, then flipping it over and setting it on top of the acrylic sheet, like shown below. Unfortunately, it isn't quite feasible to sand the sheet of acrylic.

Screenshot 2025-02-18 092827tretret.png

I'm no artist, so hopefully these illustrations are adequate. This is, essentially, what the Weldon representative I spoke with informed me to do. However, I'm not certain they had much of any experience assembling aquariums.

The result is a fair seam, with no bubbles. However, I'm slightly worried about whether or not this is an appropriate use of this product. More specifically, I've seen earlier mentions of the Weldon 40 not being able to "bite" into the acrylic. The result is a seam that "looks good" but might be lacking structural integrity. For what it's worth, I tried my hardest to pull the sheets apart to no avail. However, I would love for someone who's more familiar with Weldon 40 to double-check my work and let me know their thoughts.

After 72 hours of curing, I can confirm that this seal is water tight. I went ahead and drilled the bugger and set it up in a spare shower in the basement just in case it explodes. It's been about two weeks, and it's about as sound as ever.

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I apologize for the lengthy post. Thank you in advance!
 
Nice work! My first thought was "What the hell is a Kreisel?" I broke the MFK rule about doing any research myself and looked it up and now I know I need one. It looks like a great container for keeping K1 swirling and dancing in a DIY filtration set-up...should look cool, which is IMHO about the only reason to bother with the stuff...

@wednesday13
 
Nice work! My first thought was "What the hell is a Kreisel?" I broke the MFK rule about doing any research myself and looked it up and now I know I need one. It looks like a great container for keeping K1 swirling and dancing in a DIY filtration set-up...should look cool, which is IMHO about the only reason to bother with the stuff...

@wednesday13
Haha! Thats how I've always felt about fluidized sand filtration. It's seldom the most practical, but the points for style can tip the scale.

To be fair, kreisels are a bit outside or MFK's appetite. This will be used for baby seahorses. I've got nothing but love for the folks over at Reef2Reef, but many of them don't even know the difference between cement and solvent. It seems like all of the best advice I've found online has originated from this forum, so I figured I'd ask here.
 
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Haha! Thats how I've always felt about fluidized sand filtration. It's seldom the most practical, but the points for style can tip the scale.

To be fair, kreisels are a bit outside or MFK's appetite. This will be used for baby seahorses. I've got nothing but love for the folks over at Reef2Reef, but many of them don't even know the difference between cement and solvent. It seems like all of the best advice I've found online has originated from this forum, so I figured I'd ask here.

R2R is actually where i learned about weld-on 40 15yrs ago before i tried it and shared the info here over the years… was a member there who worked in an acrylic shop. #40 is 30 times stronger than any solvent. Im sure u can get a solvent bond out of these if u block sanded them enough. Thats alot of work tho. #42 would work as well and be cleaner to use but the applicator guns are pretty pricey as well as the carts opposed to 40, and its the same glue.

Pretty impressive on the bends without the use of an oven 💀🤙. Esp in 1/2”… only thing i can recommend looking out for when seaming with 40 is to lay down ur material once and leave it be. Its fine to slide it around a bit if needed. IME if you pull it up anywhere and reset the sheet the seam will ultimately fail. You can tell right away when it sets up it wont be 100% clear. They usually just pop right off also after the tanks full lol… not sure y. Solvent bonds are weaker but they never really “let loose” like an in correct 40 seam bond.

Sanding always helps but its not 💯 necessary. The heat of the 40 cure helps the glue bite a bit into the material. Only other way i can think to achieve this easier would be to router out a channel for the bend piece to drop into. It would achieve the “sanding” portion for u and also provide more bite by grabbing more material to glue on. Doesn’t have to be deep. 1/8” would b plenty.

Nice work across the board regardless tho! You’d be fine to try one in 3/8” material as well but it looks perfect in 1/2” just the same 💀🤙. Very cool project.
 
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R2R is actually where i learned about weld-on 40 15yrs ago before i tried it and shared the info here over the years… was a member there who worked in an acrylic shop. #40 is 30 times stronger than any solvent. Im sure u can get a solvent bond out of these if u block sanded them enough. Thats alot of work tho. #42 would work as well and be cleaner to use but the applicator guns are pretty pricey as well as the carts opposed to 40, and its the same glue.

Pretty impressive on the bends without the use of an oven 💀🤙. Esp in 1/2”… only thing i can recommend looking out for when seaming with 40 is to lay down ur material once and leave it be. Its fine to slide it around a bit if needed. IME if you pull it up anywhere and reset the sheet the seam will ultimately fail. You can tell right away when it sets up it wont be 100% clear. They usually just pop right off also after the tanks full lol… not sure y. Solvent bonds are weaker but they never really “let loose” like an in correct 40 seam bond.

Sanding always helps but its not 💯 necessary. The heat of the 40 cure helps the glue bite a bit into the material. Only other way i can think to achieve this easier would be to router out a channel for the bend piece to drop into. It would achieve the “sanding” portion for u and also provide more bite by grabbing more material to glue on. Doesn’t have to be deep. 1/8” would b plenty.

Nice work across the board regardless tho! You’d be fine to try one in 3/8” material as well but it looks perfect in 1/2” just the same 💀🤙. Very cool project.
Thank you for the response! You were the biggest advocate for WeldOn 40 which really brought it to my attention. Honestly, between using 4 and 40, I much prefer 40. The volatility of the stuff is staggering, so it's probably not for everyone, but it's ability to close gaps makes it so much less stressful, in my opinion.

It's extremely messy, though... at least when I use it. 😆

When I set it down, all of the excess extrudes out the sides. I suppose that isn't too big of a deal, though. Wiping away the excess left a huge smear of slightly opaque cement, which was unsightly. I was thinking of laying some painters tape down to catch the excess, but that has also posed more obstacles. Removing it isn't easy, and might lead to globs of excess weldon falling straight onto the viewing panels if I'm not careful. Trying to do so might cause the pieces of acrylic to shift as well. Lastly, it's been kind of difficult to tell when it would be best to remove the tape. Too soon and the piece isn't set proper, too late and it might end up bonded in place. Haha! Do you have any feedback for cleaner joints?

I hear you on leaving it be once it's set down. I'll keep that in mind. My biggest fear is a panel popping in the fashion you just described. It will probably be a few years before I'm comfortable bringing any tanks that I've made out of the basement. In the meanwhile, they're going to remain proximate to a floor drain. Haha. The structure itself is a source of anxiety, leaving the tanks suspended, but I suppose there isn't a tremendous amount more pressure than in larger conventional aquariums.

To clarify, though, this was heated in an oven. A friend has one of those big and fancy commercial ovens for cerakoting, which I was able to sneak some acrylic into after hours. About 35 minutes at 375°F and it's extremely flexible!
 
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Ahh… u did use an oven lol… super cool. Bit jealous u have a friend with a giant oven. U can anneal the 40 in there as well if u ever run into crazing problems. Ive only played with torches and heating element style benders.

As for keeping 40 work clean. You can use squirt type bottles, syringes and even pack caulk tubes with it. All time sensitive as u know and some things may not be able to be cleaned easily after the glue dries. I would not recommend tape like ur thinking. Only way to get any spills/wipes off is to sand it flush then sand/buff back to clear.

I think a router can help you. Should b able to use a flush trim bit to clean up the edges enough to use solvent if u want. I really think the channel cut with a router in ur side pieces is the way to go. Can fill the channel with ur 40, keep it clean, and provide extra bond. Id make a jig out of wood, lay it over ur acrylic side pieces and hog out a nice 1/8”-3/16” deep channel for the bent piece to sit in.

I wouldnt be as worried with the one u already made. She would have shown you milky seams or popped already lol 💀🤙 40 is super strong.
 
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Ahh… u did use an oven lol… super cool. Bit jealous u have a friend with a giant oven. U can anneal the 40 in there as well if u ever run into crazing problems. Ive only played with torches and heating element style benders.

As for keeping 40 work clean. You can use squirt type bottles, syringes and even pack caulk tubes with it. All time sensitive as u know and some things may not be able to be cleaned easily after the glue dries. I would not recommend tape like ur thinking. Only way to get any spills/wipes off is to sand it flush then sand/buff back to clear.

I think a router can help you. Should b able to use a flush trim bit to clean up the edges enough to use solvent if u want. I really think the channel cut with a router in ur side pieces is the way to go. Can fill the channel with ur 40, keep it clean, and provide extra bond. Id make a jig out of wood, lay it over ur acrylic side pieces and hog out a nice 1/8”-3/16” deep channel for the bent piece to sit in.

I wouldnt be as worried with the one u already made. She would have shown you milky seams or popped already lol 💀🤙 40 is super strong.
Sounds like a plan! I agree, I think routing would be ideal. I may need to try that with a future tank. The only issue is that it the forming process is far from perfect - each curved acrylic piece might be a few millimeters wider or taller than the next. If they were all perfectly replicable, a jig would definitely be feasible. However, every time I route a channel it would need to be specific to that bent piece of acrylic. I do think I can do a little sanding along where it's going to be set to allow for a little additional grip. I still consider this to be in the "beta" phase, so I appreciate you taking the time to take a look at it!
 
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