Emo fish

[Gershom]

I had two 2 year old discus, a “tiger turquoise”, and a “blue turquoise”. They were in a tank with Satanoperca, and got along well. A couple times they seriously considered spawning, but I suspect neither had the qualifications for laying eggs.

Once Blue suffered a bad scrape on his flank, and it didn’t look lethal, but he acted like it might be, turning very dark and not eating. Tiger seemed to take care of him—aggressively chasing the other fish away if they came close to Blue! He recovered in a couple weeks

Then I moved the Satanoperca out, and bought 5 half-grown red turquoise. Blue put on a dramatic show for weeks, with fins extended and colors bright, while ignoring (or chasing) his old pal. Blue chose the largest of the reds for special attention, again seeming interested in spawning.

Tiger seemed to become depressed. He quit eating and stayed in one corner. I tried segregating Blue by himself, putting Blue and Tiger in a tank by themselves, and separating Tiger with one of the reds, but nothing helped. Blue never treated his old friend well again, and after about two months, Tiger died, apparently of depression…

Anyone else have fish show that sort of attachment?

 

[danotaylor]

Discus are very social cichlids. Keeping 2 alone will develop a bond for sure, even if they’re the same sex. Introducing a shoal could potentially break the bond of the pair, especially if 1 starts to display signs of ill health. Your situation sounds to me like a classic case of cross contamination which is very common when introducing new discus to an existing group. Signs are darkening, stress bars pronounced, off food, and hiding in corners. It is highly recommended to quarantine discus for 4-6 weeks for observation, then use a strategy called “the hero fish” before bringing all the discus together. Intro 1 fish from 1 group to the other group and observe. Even when doing the hero fish method it is possible to experience cross contamination sickness because discus from different sources can carry and be immune to pathogens others will succumb too. I have navigated this exact situation several times in the years I kept discus. In every instance except 1 salt at 1tbsp/1gal rectified the situation.
BTW your discus are very nice, great shape. Whereabouts did you source them?

 

[Gershom]

Dano—
I appreciate the suggestion and input! Interesting, but I’m not clear about cause. Are you saying it’s a virus/bacterium/parasite that has no specific signs, and only affected one fish?

Thanks! The older fish were from Wet Pets in Portland OR, as juvies. The red turquoise were from an ebay seller in NJ, but I can’t remember his name.

 

[danotaylor]

Dano—
I appreciate the suggestion and input! Interesting, but I’m not clear about cause. Are you saying it’s a virus/bacterium/parasite that has no specific signs, and only affected one fish?

Thanks! The older fish were from Wet Pets in Portland OR, as juvies. The red turquoise were from an ebay seller in NJ, but I can’t remember his name.

Gershom I know it sounds unusual, especially since I see you are a retired physician. It would be like someone who has immunity to a certain pathogen but can still act as a carrier and spread it to others.
It is peculiar that both of your original discus did not succumb, and perhaps my hypothesis in your specific case is incorrect. I have been an active participant on the Simply Discus forum since 2018 and have observed many times, and experienced twice, the very scenario I described.
It appears that your group is doing well now, and perhaps your hypothesis of more of an emotional causation is a factor.
Healthy discus are voracious eaters though, and even when low in the pecking order will still typically feed actively. Discus that turn dark, have pronounced stress bars and hide are almost always experiencing some type of sickness. Did you notice any stringy white poop? Stress can give rise to hexetemia, a parasitic gut pathogen that is present in every aquarium. A discus with a healthy immune system keeps it in check, but when stressed, it can colonize and cause gut problems, evidenced by pooping out the lining of their intestines as stringy white looking poop.

 

[Gershom]

Gershom I know it sounds unusual, especially since I see you are a retired physician. It would be like someone who has immunity to a certain pathogen but can still act as a carrier and spread it to others.
It is peculiar that both of your original discus did not succumb, and perhaps my hypothesis in your specific case is incorrect. I have been an active participant on the Simply Discus forum since 2018 and have observed many times, and experienced twice, the very scenario I described.
It appears that your group is doing well now, and perhaps your hypothesis of more of an emotional causation is a factor.
Healthy discus are voracious eaters though, and even when low in the pecking order will still typically feed actively. Discus that turn dark, have pronounced stress bars and hide are almost always experiencing some type of sickness. Did you notice any stringy white poop? Stress can give rise to hexetemia, a parasitic gut pathogen that is present in every aquarium. A discus with a healthy immune system keeps it in check, but when stressed, it can colonize and cause gut problems, evidenced by pooping out the lining of their intestines as stringy white looking poop.

I had certainly wondered how the hero fish concept could work if the disease might affect only one fish!

And no, I didn’t see any other signs, including stringy white poop.

Regarding the discus appetite, I have much less experience than you do, I think. But one of the red turquoise (Sulky), is indeed low in the hierarchy, and has a chronic poor appetite, often ignoring food that the others take eagerly. At one point I thought she was likely to die. But recently I got fresh beef heart, and feed them shredded frozen heart. It’s by far their favorite food, to the point that I worry they don’t get enough variety. Sulky has become more active and put on weight—she looks much better!

I am interested in your suggestions for other foods, especially since my fish don’t always eat what I offer…

 

[danotaylor]

Gershom The hero fish strategy works 1 of 3 ways, either there's no problem, or the individual fish added gets cross contamination sickness, or the group it is added too does. When I experienced CC sickness, it was the group of locally bred discus got sick within 12 hours of adding a fish imported from Malaysia. Fortunately one of the mods on Simply Discus chimed right into help me, and adding 1tbsp salt per 1 gallon of aquarium water saved the day in the tank with the sickness. I then added salt in the same concentration to the tank with the Malaysian imports I wanted to add to local fish too, kept the salt concentration consistent with my every other day 80% water changes for 2 weeks, on both tanks, and was then able to successfully merge the 2 groups into my display without further issues. Whether it was viral or bacterial or parasitic I have no clue, but the locally bred fish were black and laying flat on the bottom within 12 hours of adding the Malaysian discus, the weirdest thing I have experienced in 35 years in the hobby at that time.

I used to feed my discus frozen deer heat (I'm a hunter) shaved with a parmesan cheese grater...looked like little blood worm squiggles, and my discus LOVED it! Also, Australian freeze dried black worms from Aquatic Suppliers was a favorite food for my discus, and very nutritious also. I did make a deer heart mix with raw shrimp, spirulina, spinach & gelatin as binder which my discus also loved, but I felt it increased the bioload and mulm build up on the inside of the tank a lot more than the grated pure heart, and I didn't see any discernable health benefits.

Here's a link to the AFDBW's;

100 Grams Spinach Combo Cubes

Freeze Dried Australian Blackworms are a convenient and nutritious food for aquarium Fish . The freeze drying process locks in nutrition by removing water. This product requires no refrigeration and stores at room temperature for months. Freeze Dried Australian Blackworms can be fed as a staple...

aquaticsuppliers.com

I pressed these up against the front glass until they stuck and the discus would tear it up.

 

[Gershom]

Gershom The hero fish strategy works 1 of 3 ways, either there's no problem, or the individual fish added gets cross contamination sickness, or the group it is added too does. When I experienced CC sickness, it was the group of locally bred discus got sick within 12 hours of adding a fish imported from Malaysia. Fortunately one of the mods on Simply Discus chimed right into help me, and adding 1tbsp salt per 1 gallon of aquarium water saved the day in the tank with the sickness. I then added salt in the same concentration to the tank with the Malaysian imports I wanted to add to local fish too, kept the salt concentration consistent with my every other day 80% water changes for 2 weeks, on both tanks, and was then able to successfully merge the 2 groups into my display without further issues. Whether it was viral or bacterial or parasitic I have no clue, but the locally bred fish were black and laying flat on the bottom within 12 hours of adding the Malaysian discus, the weirdest thing I have experienced in 35 years in the hobby at that time.

I used to feed my discus frozen deer heat (I'm a hunter) shaved with a parmesan cheese grater...looked like little blood worm squiggles, and my discus LOVED it! Also, Australian freeze dried black worms from Aquatic Suppliers was a favorite food for my discus, and very nutritious also. I did make a deer heart mix with raw shrimp, spirulina, spinach & gelatin as binder which my discus also loved, but I felt it increased the bioload and mulm build up on the inside of the tank a lot more than the grated pure heart, and I didn't see any discernable health benefits.

Here's a link to the AFDBW's;

100 Grams Spinach Combo Cubes

Freeze Dried Australian Blackworms are a convenient and nutritious food for aquarium Fish . The freeze drying process locks in nutrition by removing water. This product requires no refrigeration and stores at room temperature for months. Freeze Dried Australian Blackworms can be fed as a staple...

aquaticsuppliers.com

I pressed these up against the front glass until they stuck and the discus would tear it up.

Amazing story!
I wonder how much actual research there is on hero fish. If you add one fish, it gets sick, maybe dies, so you don’t add the others, you don’t really know if they would have gotten sick. The single fish has the stress of being taken from his community and put in with strangers. But it is an interesting concept.

The shredded heart is easier to grate with an electric drill—I use a 1 inch wood bit on frozen heart. Thanks for your feeding advice. I’ll check into black worms.