Geocel 4500 sealant?

jjohnwm

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Geocel 4500 is a product that is useful as a sealant and adhesive for EDPM pond liners. I used it a number of years ago to adhere a patch over a hole in my first inground pond, worked wonderfully. It also supposedly adheres EDPM to a "wide variety" of other materials.

Does anyone have any experience in using it on glass? I am thinking of installing an EDPM liner inside a plywood tank that already has an existing (leaky) front glass window. Install the liner, overlap the edges of the glass on all sides with it and then seal all the way around the glass using 4500.

I have already submitted my query to the manufacturer, just hoping to get some unbiased additional opinions in case anyone has tried it for similar purposes. Thanks in advance!
 

wednesday13

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Ive made Epdm liner tanks with windows using “Gold label aquarium and pond sealer/silicone” and also 3m 5200… both were epdm to acrylic bond which is very weak and they both worked fine. Tanks were 650gal and 1700gal… The Gold label is a most exellent product and sounds similiar to the Geocel. Problem with Gold label is its expensive and hard to get in the US. U may have better luck being in Canada tho. The product originates from Australia i believe but its more popular in the UK. (More readily available). Like the Geocel the GoldLabel is known to adhere well to a variety of materials like glass, steel, wood, stone etc… my 650g has been running for 12yrs now with it. I used a gasket type seal but id imagine itd hold very well epdm to glass how u propose. Id even go as far as cutting sheets of liner, spray adhesive them to the walls and just silicone them at the seams with the geocel or gold label. Will b much “cleaner”…

My buddy also has a liner/window tank and the liner to glass seal is held by gorilla tape. That tank is around 4kgal so that method would work for ur size as well np…
 

jjohnwm

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Ive made Epdm liner tanks with windows using “Gold label aquarium and pond sealer/silicone” and also 3m 5200… both were epdm to acrylic bond which is very weak and they both worked fine. Tanks were 650gal and 1700gal… The Gold label is a most exellent product and sounds similiar to the Geocel. Problem with Gold label is its expensive and hard to get in the US. U may have better luck being in Canada tho. The product originates from Australia i believe but its more popular in the UK. (More readily available). Like the Geocel the GoldLabel is known to adhere well to a variety of materials like glass, steel, wood, stone etc… my 650g has been running for 12yrs now with it. I used a gasket type seal but id imagine itd hold very well epdm to glass how u propose. Id even go as far as cutting sheets of liner, spray adhesive them to the walls and just silicone them at the seams with the geocel or gold label. Will b much “cleaner”…

My buddy also has a liner/window tank and the liner to glass seal is held by gorilla tape. That tank is around 4kgal so that method would work for ur size as well np…
This ^ might come as close to "life-changing" as a post on an aquarium forum ever could! Thanks!

Your suggestion of spray-gluing the sheets to the walls and then sealing the seams is exactly what I was sorta kinda planning; it all hinged upon the glass/EPDM interface. I had considered 5200 based upon one friend's recommendations, but don't recall ever hearing of Gold Label. One or the other sounds like it might work.

Could you expand a bit on the Gorilla Tape idea? How long has that been working for him? To clarify: he has a window glass mounted in place, then just rolls the edge of the liner over top of that around the periphery and just tapes it down??? Talk about sounding too good to be true...

Any further info would be hugely appreciated!

The big problem is that if one of these methods works on my little leaky 70-gallon...then I will have to build another bigger tank from scratch to further test it out...the horror...the horror...
 
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wednesday13

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The Gold Label is hands down the best silicone ive ever touched ?… thick asphault like consistency and very sticky. Super hard to get off ur hands even. Viktor has used it aswell to do an underwater repair on one of his fiberglass tanks. It was used by @SatansGoldfish many many yrs ago how i found it myself here on the forum…the 3m “works” i had no issues with leaks but id go gold label if i were to do another build. One of the OG ray guys here cut and adhered his liner to the walls then used seam tape for the seams as well as the window and it held for yrs. Miiiight still b running, he kinda got out a bit.
Not sure y liner/window tanks aren’t more popular. There successful many times over with many different methods and materials. Very popular in the koi scene as well in the UK.
Back to the gorilla tape… thatd b our member
Gpdriftwood Gpdriftwood . Pics of his build are here somewhere ??… but yeah, same as others have done with seam tape. Just overlap the liner to glass and tape er up…
 

wednesday13

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Loctite also makes a roofing silicone thats been tried/proven for glass/liner tanks… cant forget the blast from the past nolapete nolapete either. Showed us pics of his friends builds that used liner, glass windows, rubber gasket, dow corning silicone and rubber cement to make a seal lol… those were also 3-5k+gal. range. Soooo many methods that have worked for many with windows with bolts, w/o bolts and all kinds of products. Only failure ive had are fish eating through the liners. Y the adhering the liner to the walls may be superior/beneficial to resist against punctures or biting any folds.
 

wednesday13

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Sorry to “bomb” this thread ?… pics of “proof” for ya tho… white silicone is the 3m 5200 on a 1700 build… “classic MFK” swim in yer tank pics from many moons ago ??…
My 650g build is in my signature also. Was not documented very well as camera phones didnt exist then.

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Gpdriftwood

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Right on Russ. I went glass onto liner w 3 different beads of silicone (ASI aquarium sealant) worked great. Only issue so far has been caused by my carpentry. Lol. But I like this thread and might try one of the different options u guys r using in the future. ??
 

wednesday13

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Right on Russ. I went glass onto liner w 3 different beads of silicone (ASI aquarium sealant) worked great. Only issue so far has been caused by my carpentry. Lol. But I like this thread and might try one of the different options u guys r using in the future. ??
Makes me wanna come outta “retirement” reminiscing on these old photos lol… one of these days ill finish my 3k build. Funny its about the same as ur tank ??… just a metal frame opposed to wood.
 

Gpdriftwood

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Smart move. No margin for error w metal frame, says me the carpenter. Either way, we kinda hijacked homies thread. I have no experience with the sealant in question, therefore no advise. Stoked to see and hear the outcome for sure. I doubt a better sealant would've helped the issue in my big tank, but I laid 3 separate beads of API w tape over all because I was gambling for monetary reasons. Needed the space. Would prefer a more "tar like" adhesion to liner if i ever do another liner build. ?
 
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jjohnwm

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Not a highjack at all, this is exactly the kind of stuff I was hoping to find/hear.

I'm still uncertain which route to take on this project. The whole thing is really academic, it's not as though I have an emergency repair that must be done. I've already replaced the tank in question with another...an actual store-bought new all-glass tank, first one in many moons...so I really am just playing with ways to repair the old one.

Currently, I'm torn between three options:

First, just forget about it as an aquarium and use it for a terrarium or other cage. This is of course the easiest option, so naturally the least attractive. :) I have granddaughters, and they have other grandparents doing their level best to make those girls grow up afraid of everything, including snakes...so I feel a responsibility to at least demonstrate another path of thinking to them; having a snake for them to handle is just one step in that direction.

Second, the liner idea. I'm even considering going a bit beyond the typical 45mil fishpond liner and instead go with a 1/16 EDPM sheet sold locally for industrial and other purposes. This should be far stronger and more durable; if I do this I think it will be glued to the sides/back/bottom as individually pre-cut sheets, and with the corners reinforced with additional strips bonded in place with the same contact-cement-type sealant as used for the wall-wall bonds. I became interested in the Gold Seal as mentioned above, but a bit of research indicates that I can get 4500 for about $16 Canadian per tube; the Gold Seal will need to be special-ordered, at more than three times that price! Still waiting on word from the manufacturer about Geocel 4500's adhesion to glass.

Third, and rapidly moving forward in the running, is a paint-on liquid rubber coating. This one's appealing to me for its simplicity. Relatively few different products to buy and use, relatively easy to get locally, relatively much cheaper, and definitely the simplest actual procedure. Just clean the interior, paint the stuff on, going right up onto the edge of the glass. If I go this route, I will likely lay some reinforcing mesh fabric along each corner seam, mainly to strengthen the membrane and give it some "body" in these areas where its minimal adhesion to existing silicone makes it problematic. The manufacturers also sell an adhesive tape specifically for use with this product; it's designed to have the liquid rubber applied right over top of it, and I might use it around the edge of the glass before painting.

So there I am right now, completely undecided. I will hold off making a choice until I hear more about Geocel 4500 from the makers. Decisions, decisions...
 
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