How to successfully rear fry without the parents?

[Hybridfish7]

I know how to breed substrate spawning cichlids. Only took me 7 spawns of 2 different species but I guess I got the hang of it.
- get a pair
- pair spawns
- do not feed the fry, only the parents, the parents feed the fry what they eat and the fry eat microorganisms/leftover food
- leave fry with parents for 2-3 weeks, until they start to get picked off
- see the fry being eaten, pull them
- fry grow up in grow out tank
I leave the fry with the parents for at most 3 weeks. when I pull them as wrigglers or eggs they usually die of starvation or something because they seem to rely on the parents for food. at 2-3 weeks they're basically living on their own and finding their own food, so I pull them because I know they know how to survive on their own.
My question is how do I rear them without the whole "let the parents raise them" part
So far I've been unsuccessful rearing them from eggs or wrigglers without the parents.
would an egg tumbler help with substrate spawners?

 

[justarn]

I used to Syphon of 75% of the wrigglers and move to an established tank. Feed freshly hatched brine shrimp ( can buy hatchery at any good fish store)
And boiled egg yoke, only a tiny amount tho as it's messy.

 

[duanes]

I have used egg tumblers for mouth brooders, but I doubt it would help for substrate spawners, although they fan eggs, only nicaraguense has non- adhesive eggs (as far as Central Americans go.
This what I do, if the eggs are put down in a community setting, or the parents are known egg eaters.
I put the eggs in a breeder box, or small tank with an air stone, close enough to aerate them, but not rip them from stems.

(above and below, Ptychochromis "tar antsy eggs and wrigglers )

I leave the air stone in, even when wrigglers to keep debris from settling on the wigglers.

(above Chuco intermedium wrigglers, I was lucky they placed the wrigglers in a PVC cap, so easy to remove from the community tank) I always provide PVC caps now, parents seem to love to hide wrigglers in them

once free swimming just feed Artemia.

 

[oshp132]

All pairs are going to be different. I leave my Festae fry with the parents for about 6-8 weeks .They're amazing parents. Then they spawn again within a few weeks of me pulling the fry.
I feed my fry decap brine shrimp eggs and plecocaine.

 

[hibackgoldaro]

my geos (redhead tapajos) 1st spawn..i waited too long (2 weeks) before i siphoned them out and was only able to save about 16 of them..the 2nd spawn was much smaller about 2 months later and i took about 1/2 out (10 wigglers)...all are doing well in a 20 g growout tank and growing fast...i think after a week with the parents..they get too big to be mouth brooded and will slowly get picked off overnight so i wait no longer than a week before i'll take any free swimmers out of the main tank...

 

[Hybridfish7]

Well here's some of my marbled convict fry.



One little runt in the back.

 

[AKBlueJacks]

I have had success with the following steps. I leave the eggs with the parents for at least a day before I put them in a different tank. I never let them touch the air. I put them in my spawning / growout tank with new water that has been up and running for a few days. When I put them in their own tank I place the flat slate with the eggs on under the discharge of the hang on the back filter at an almost vertical angle. I also add a seasoned sponge filter to the tank to make sure there is a good population of benefitial bacteria in the tank. At this point a turkey baster is your best friend. If any eggs turn white and get fussy you need to suck them up with the turkey baster. When they hatch I wash them off the slate with a flow of water out of the turkey baster. When in the wriggler stage I suck out any dead ones and any other debris. It takes a lot of time and effort. I start the brine shrimp hatchery so that I have newly hatched brine shrimp on the seventh day after the spawn. Once they become free swimming I feed them baby brine shrimp and I add another seasoned sponge filter. I get worried that my bacteria might have died off because I haven’t added food that would be breaking down yet. Not sure if I need to, but I do. I feed baby brine shrimp three times a day and after about a week I add a few of my baby plecos to clean up after the fry.

 

[Hybridfish7]

i'll have to test egg tumblers for substrate spawners myself... i remember the second spawn of my rio esmeraldas gold, i scraped about 10 eggs off the glass and put them in a breeder box... there they hatched and became free swimming, but later got slurped out by the parents. so you can take the eggs and successfully hatch them... but I just don't know if an egg tumbler would/could work. I could try... do the wrigglers/eggs need the circulation that an egg tumbler gives?