ID this disease?

[Abyssalisk]

I ordered 6 bass from F fenderwai last Wednesday. Since then, One intermedia was found dead with torn fins and a small yellow discharge from his right gill. Now, 2 days later, my other intermedia (who has been a pig) is extremely lethargic, not eating, has severely torn fins, and a whitening between his tail and body. I figured since these guys were the smallest that it'd go for them first but I want it exterminated before any of my other fish show symptoms. Thanks!

 

[Pomatomus]

Well the lesion on the back looks like the characteristic "saddleback" of a columnaris infection. The fins and gills are a bit perplexing though. The columnaris could also have infected the gills, but it (and the fins) could be the result of a secondary infection.

If it's columnaris the tank should be kept clean (low organic load) and the temperature should be kept low. What temperature are you running now?

Columnaris infections can vary a lot in their symptoms and efficacy of treatment. I had one that was a "superbug" and defied treatment with kanamycin, oxytetracycline, sulfa, melafix, nitrofurantoin, malachite green, etc...but kanamycin is probably your best bet. The whole tank needs to be treated as it also lives on the surfaces of objects.

If you want to be 100% sure, ask a friend with a microscope to take a look at it. Columnaris is easily identified as "haystacks" of rod-shaped bacteria.

 

[Abyssalisk]

That's what I was afraid of. I keep the tank with my smaller cichla on the warmer side around 88°f and I just tested at 7.6 ph, 0.25 amonia, 0 nitrate, and 0 nitrate. I'll take out ask the ornaments (my roommate always wants them...), clean the substrate, lower the temp (do you think 78 is okay? 2° increments down over time), and do probably a 25% water change. I've got salt, melafix, and pimafix. Should I just run those? I already removed carbon from my system and cleaned the heck out of my canister filter. Thanks for the reply!

 

[kendragon]

All that cleaning will hurt you more. System will go into a mini cycle and the cichlas will stress. Water change with a little salt is most beneficial. Cichlas require good filtration. If the system is not strong enough, the power feeding will result in ammonia build up. Just my opinion... that looks like ammonia burn to the gills and body. I'm surprised you don't see some cloudy eyes.

 

[Abyssalisk]

kendragon Good perspective. I really hope you're right on the ammonia. I just tested again and still got 0.25 there. I held off on the water change in case somebody else had some insight on what I was dealing with. I'm gonna be playing it safe with these guys over the next week even though I don't like the idea of a young cichla not being stuffed

 

[Abyssalisk]

Welp. I can safely say this is in fact not amonia. His entire back half has been infected... He went from perfectly fine yesterday to on death row today. I medicated earlier, and I guess we'll have to see where it goes. Hopefully the other bass will not be affected :/

 

[duanes]

88'F is a perfect temp for columnaris, anything over 82'F and the bacteria become especially virulent.
I'm in Colombia right now, snorkeling in the rivers, and the river temps are in the mid 70s, quite cool.
I really don't see why so many aquarists keep temps so high for riverine fish.

 

[Abyssalisk]

88'F is a perfect temp for columnaris, anything over 82'F and the bacteria become especially virulent.
I'm in Colombia right now, snorkeling in the rivers, and the river temps are in the mid 70s, quite cool.
I really don't see why so many aquarists keep temps so high for riverine fish.

Young cichla is why. Why slow down their metabolism when you're trying to power feed? I've dropped it down to 78 temporarily and after medicating/salt/water changes the other guys are going strong!

 

[Abyssalisk]

Also, that must be awesome down in Columbia! Do you have a thread about your visit?

 

[duanes]

I do have a thread called Searching for cichlids in Colombia.
I don't believe keeping temps too high is a healthy way to get growth, because temps that are too high create breeding grounds for pathogenic bacteria which can (as the opening post states) kill fish, or stunt them with disease. Bacteria thrive in high temps and populations will explode if there is any detritus in filters or in the substrate, especially from overfeeding to accelerate growth.
A better approach for getting decent growth, is doing large daily water changes. It is theorized the fish fish produce growth inhibiting compounds (pheromones) which build up in small places like tanks. This is probably one of the reasons why, in the "old days", when water changes were thought to be bad, fish were thought to grow only to tank size. In tiny tanks the pheromones would build up slowing, or even halting growth when not removed by water changes.