Issues raising fry

[softturtle]

I'm having some isssues raising angel fry past the wiggler stage. I've talked to a few different breeders and they gave me enough info to write a very contradictory book on the subject.

My method: as soon as the pair is done spawning, I take the breeding tube(pvc is what they always spawn on) and move it to a specimen cup(1/2 gal) that hangs in the tank. It is filled with well aged water that has 6 drops of methylene blue per gallon. The specimen cup has been in the tank for a few days and is the same temp as the tank. There is airline going into one end of the cup. I have been getting great results hatching the eggs using this method. Only loosing a couple of eggs the first day(probably infertile). That is were my success ends.

I'm beggining to wonder if I am not feeding the fry soon enough. One thing all of their methods had in common was the first feeding. Wait until ALL the wigglers started free swimming before feeding live baby brine. Ok, so around day nine, most of the fry started bouncing around the bottom, not quite swimming, but just quick bursts off the bottom, then back down. Is this what is considered free swimming? The next day almost all the fry were dead. Starvation?

The next thing I thought of was the water quality. Should I be changing the water in the specimen cup before the fry even start eating? I have heard of others doing this, but a good friend who has great success with angels and discus does no such thing and said I was silly for even thinking about that. I have noticed a little build up in the cup, but I use a medicine dropper to suck out any of the debris. So could it be water quality? I'm stumpted. All the books I have are not helping either, but they got me this far. Now I just want to see free swimming baby angels.

 

[GudEnuf]

I'm having some isssues raising angel fry past the wiggler stage. I've talked to a few different breeders and they gave me enough info to write a very contradictory book on the subject.

My method: as soon as the pair is done spawning, I take the breeding tube(pvc is what they always spawn on) and move it to a specimen cup(1/2 gal) that hangs in the tank. It is filled with well aged water that has 6 drops of methylene blue per gallon. The specimen cup has been in the tank for a few days and is the same temp as the tank. There is airline going into one end of the cup. I have been getting great results hatching the eggs using this method. Only loosing a couple of eggs the first day(probably infertile). That is were my success ends.

I'm beggining to wonder if I am not feeding the fry soon enough. One thing all of their methods had in common was the first feeding. Wait until ALL the wigglers started free swimming before feeding live baby brine. Ok, so around day nine, most of the fry started bouncing around the bottom, not quite swimming, but just quick bursts off the bottom, then back down. Is this what is considered free swimming? The next day almost all the fry were dead. Starvation?

The next thing I thought of was the water quality. Should I be changing the water in the specimen cup before the fry even start eating? I have heard of others doing this, but a good friend who has great success with angels and discus does no such thing and said I was silly for even thinking about that. I have noticed a little build up in the cup, but I use a medicine dropper to suck out any of the debris. So could it be water quality? I'm stumpted. All the books I have are not helping either, but they got me this far. Now I just want to see free swimming baby angels.

Bouncing around is not free swimming. Free swimming is when you see them forming a cloud of swimmers off the bottom.

1/2 gallon? that's too small in my opinion and probably does not hold enough oxygen to support free swimming fries. The smallest I've used for hatching eggs away from the parents is a 1 gallon jug and sometimes a plastic shoe box. I always aerate them though to circulate the water and load the water with oxygen. I use to do water changes too before they get into the free swimming act but lately I've stopped that and just do water changes after they start swimmimg with no ill effects.

 

[softturtle]

Bouncing around is not free swimming. Free swimming is when you see them forming a cloud of swimmers off the bottom.

1/2 gallon? that's too small in my opinion and probably does not hold enough oxygen to support free swimming fries. The smallest I've used for hatching eggs away from the parents is a 1 gallon jug and sometimes a plastic shoe box. I always aerate them though to circulate the water and load the water with oxygen. I use to do water changes too before they get into the free swimming act but lately I've stopped that and just do water changes after they start swimmimg with no ill effects.

Ok, I do have an airline running in the cup. It is running so that all the fry are always rocking back and forth (just below the point of the fry being tumbled around). I will use an o2 test next time and see where the oxygen levels are at.

How do you go about heating a gallon jar/box? That is why I (and the breeder who told me to use them) use the specimen cup and hang it in the spawning tank. Do you use new water in the hatch jar/box or water from the spawning tank?

Thanks for the advice in any case.

 

[Tropicalfishking]

Use the water from the spawning tank.

I put them in a 10 gal. Wait until it has been 1 1/2 days after free swimming, then feed them. make sure that the tank temp is around 80 -82. Feed them three times a day. Morning, Afternoon, Evening. Making sure that there bellies are always full. You should do a minimum of 2 water changes a day, after the first and last feeding. Only change a little amount, as to much tap, fresh water is not good for the fry. Make sure that the water going into the tank is as close to tank temp as possible. Remember to use water conditioner!!!!!
In a 10 gal, I usually change 2-3 gallons each water change.

You should look up this guy on youtube. He made a two part breeding video of angelfish breeding, and raising the fry. That is where I learned most of what I know.
Look up Jazzy78910.

 

[dookie]

I would set up a 10 gallon tank with an established undergravel filter and raise the fry there. The gravel is a safe media for both mechanical and biological filtration for fry fish. Sounds like the water is killing your babies. A simple ammonia/nitrite check will establish this claim.

 

[GudEnuf]

How do you go about heating a gallon jar/box? That is why I (and the breeder who told me to use them) use the specimen cup and hang it in the spawning tank. Do you use new water in the hatch jar/box or water from the spawning tank?

Thanks for the advice in any case.

I live in Florida and keep the tanks in the garage. Generally, I don't use heaters in tank and use a space heater in the garage only when the outside temp drops below 40 degrees. When the Angels spawn during cold months and I want to hatch them away from parents, I use a 2.5 gallon specimen tank and heat it with 25w heater or a 10 gallon tank when available and use a 50 w heater.

I've used both aged new water kept in drums in the garage or water from the spawning tank.

 

[born2lovefish]

I breed angels in RO water. Personally, I have found it best to leave the fry with the parents until free swimming. Depending on water temp. this usually will be about 6-7 days after the eggs were laid. Feed live brine shrimp initially. I have feed microworms as the first food before, but did not get good growth from the fry. Water changes are important once you start feeding, as the leftover food will foul the water, quickly. If you have any other questions, feel free to shoot me a pm.

 

[fishyreview]

Does the water in the hatching container get any ammonia build up in it before the fry are old enough to swim? Bouncing off the bottom is not good. If you have something that looks more like a swarm of bees that easily stays at any level in the water, then you have a good bunch.

I have a batch right now that is 1 week old. The water got cloudy during the wiggler stage, and when they went to swim, they are doing the bouncing off the bottom thing as you describe. I usually don't have this problem, but it happens sometimes. I was busy and didn't watch the water enough. I had 1 gal. of RO water treated with 1 tbsp of hydrogen peroxide when I first put the eggs in there. Also I had an airstone. They sit on a top shelf in a heated fishroom that runs around 80-82 degrees.

The thing is that wigglers do generate ammonia. If your pH is above 7, then that ammonia will ruin them fast...doing a couple water changes a day probably won't be enough. I like to set the pH around 6.0 or so if there's no filtration.

Many of them died in the first few days and a few were strong enough to actually eat the bbs. I keep a few small snails in there to eat uneaten bbs. I think these were damaged by ammonia. I'm only keeping them right now to try to learn more, but I know they are no good and that I messed them up by being too busy building my fishroom.

If you are absolutely sure there was no ammonia ever, then it could just be that your parents are producing poor fry. You could try giving the parents a better diet if you aren't already.

If you can get your parents to raise the fry, I'd say that you would probably never see belly sliders (yes, they will eat them anyway, but that's not my point). The best free swimming I see is always from parent raised angels.

 

[rahman1643]

I'm having some isssues raising angel fry past the wiggler stage. I've talked to a few different breeders and they gave me enough info to write a very contradictory book on the subject.

My method: as soon as the pair is done spawning, I take the breeding tube(pvc is what they always spawn on) and move it to a specimen cup(1/2 gal) that hangs in the tank. It is filled with well aged water that has 6 drops of methylene blue per gallon. The specimen cup has been in the tank for a few days and is the same temp as the tank. There is airline going into one end of the cup. I have been getting great results hatching the eggs using this method. Only loosing a couple of eggs the first day(probably infertile). That is were my success ends.

I'm beggining to wonder if I am not feeding the fry soon enough. One thing all of their methods had in common was the first feeding. Wait until ALL the wigglers started free swimming before feeding live baby brine. Ok, so around day nine, most of the fry started bouncing around the bottom, not quite swimming, but just quick bursts off the bottom, then back down. Is this what is considered free swimming? The next day almost all the fry were dead. Starvation?

The next thing I thought of was the water quality. Should I be changing the water in the specimen cup before the fry even start eating? I have heard of others doing this, but a good friend who has great success with angels and discus does no such thing and said I was silly for even thinking about that. I have noticed a little build up in the cup, but I use a medicine dropper to suck out any of the debris. So could it be water quality? I'm stumpted. All the books I have are not helping either, but they got me this far. Now I just want to see free swimming baby angels.

take a biger tank and make a water in ph 6.8-7 temp must be between 28-29c & water must be very clean .important thing is food for parents.parent must eat live or freez blood worm 2 weeks 4 time in a day before breeding.your babes are weak.
i breed angels & i have no problem.from 500-600 egg 150-200 can be raise up in good condition.