Juruense Question

GiantFishKeeper101

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Is there a difference between gold zebra cat and flash zebra cat? As I search for information, there're a lot of debate on this topic. From the info, it looks like gold zebra cat has stripes whilst flash zebra cat has weird markings with gold body.

Is it from the same subspecies? How to tell them apart when juvenile?

image.jpeg

Gold Zebra Catfish

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Flash Zebra Catfish
 

tlindsey

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Is there a difference between gold zebra cat and flash zebra cat? As I search for information, there're a lot of debate on this topic. From the info, it looks like gold zebra cat has stripes whilst flash zebra cat has weird markings with gold body.

Is it from the same subspecies? How to tell them apart when juvenile?

View attachment 1279731

Gold Zebra Catfish

View attachment 1279732

Flash Zebra Catfish

thebiggerthebetter thebiggerthebetter
 

piranhaman00

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I personally like jurenese better than tigs as they are often comparable, giving jurenese nickname "poor mans tig". Both of them are beautiful, no idea about your question though :)
 
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amazonfishman

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On the Rio Araguaia, I wish...
From what I've seen there is Brachyplatystoma Juruense, Brachyplatystoma sp. "Flash Zebra" a variation of Juruense basically that shows more yellow and wider striping that can be more random and less upright with more design on the tail, and Brachyplatystoma sp. having non-typical striping in completely random patterns with wide variations in color not necessarily more yellow like the Flash Zebra vs Juruense. In the pictures above I personally would call that first one a Flash Zebra and the second one Brachyplatystoma sp.

Most of the Flash Zebra I've seen pictures of are wild caught or still with the exporters and show high yellows however almost all of them seem to lose that yellow after prolonged captivity. Same thing happens to other species of catfish like Ageneiosus for example.

As far as differentiating them it would be very difficult at sizes under 3" to discern between the three I mentioned above or Tigrinus for that matter, at under 6" you can weed out Tig's but the other three would still be difficult, at 12"+ you could probably make a safe assumption on if it's Juruense or Flash Zebra but Flash Zebra and sp might be similar still, at 18" it should be definitive.

Price point is another good indication if you're sourcing everything from the same person. Juruense are cheapest, Flash Zebra more expensive typically twice as much or more, then sp are very rare and usually only available in Asian markets. I've never seen any high grade sp like the one above for sale in the US in the last 10 years.
 

wednesday13

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Same fish, same sp... "flash zebra" is just a term used to jack the price up and make people think there getting something special. water parameters, collection point and just variance within the species will yeild different patterns. When buying juvi specimen 6" range u should be able to tell right away if u have an odd pattern or not. You can see the same variances in B. tigrinus.
 

moe214

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Same fish, same sp... "flash zebra" is just a term used to jack the price up and make people think there getting something special. water parameters, collection point and just variance within the species will yeild different patterns. When buying juvi specimen 6" range u should be able to tell right away if u have an odd pattern or not. You can see the same variances in B. tigrinus.
+1
 
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thebiggerthebetter

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I didn't even know there was a gold zebra catfish. I've only heard of flash zebra.

My view has been close to what W13 says, not for earnest studying of the subject but from cursory reading and small personal experience.

However, Amazonfishman is explaining some very interesting questions and has good answers too.

I am here to learn.

Again, C Chicxulub is attempting to digest all this info into some sort of methodical description. I hope he reads this thread too. Might even say something too.
 

Chicxulub

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Flash zebra, gold zebra, whatever you want to call them are all the same thing: Brachyplatystoma juruense. They are wildly variable in pattern and respond strongly to ambient conditions (light vs dark substrate) and water (they have the best coloration in very soft water). The color of the lighter part is affected by the 'wildly variable' pattern mentioned above.

Jurs are a light colored fish with dark markings, unlike tigs who are a dark colored fish with light markings. In both species, as juveniles, the markings cover the fish almost completely. As they grow, the markings that cover the body begin to break up and form patterns. In tigs, this means that the almost entirely white fish with black spots on the sides begins to break up, and the dark primary color begins to become visible while the markings begin to form. In jurs, the black coloration begins to break up, and the yellowish primary color begins to become visible. In both species, the largest and best kept specimens are always stunners with vivid, gorgeous patterns as seen in the 'gold zebra' above.

It's all a marketing gimmick. Any jur you get will look stunning if you can keep it healthy to 2'+, like the 'gold zebra' above. The problem is most die or get sold by about 15", which is when they are just starting to get nice colors.
 

amazonfishman

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On the Rio Araguaia, I wish...
I'll play devils advocate here and pose this scenario just to get everyone thinking a bit, not trying to claim right or wrong just stating a possibility.

If they are all in fact Brachyplatystoma Juruense regardless of pattern how come you don't see that much variation in any other Brachyplatystoma species?

Even the wildest looking Tigs I've seen still have the same directional shape of their stripes. I've seen maybe one that had half the striping going the opposite way but still symmetrical and obvious striping, although more wavy as adults than juvies from the head towards the tail.

Another thing I've noticed in looking at the ones I think are Brachyplatystoma sp. is that all the pics I've seen of those patterned ones seem to be fuller bodied and overall more stout looking compared to normal patterned ones. I've personally never seen a Jur or Tig over 26" in captivity although I've heard claims of them maxing out closer to 30" in the wild. Generally the two species share the same overall body shape/proportions and the biggest Tig I've seen at 26" was no where near as thick as the ones I think are Brachyplatystoma sp. The head looks broader and the overall back is taller and thicker.

If we had collection location for the ones I think are Brachyplatystoma sp. perhaps we could deduce that there is a local variant that is still the same species but always shows notably different patterns. My best comparison here would be like comparing Cichla Ocellaris vs Cichla Ocellaris "Brokopondo", they are the same species technically speaking but the ones from Brokopondo reservoir are consistently different looking.

It wasn't all that long ago that people thought there were only one or two species of TSN before it turned out there were 7 I think (can't remember exactly from the scientific journal I have at the house on Pseudoplatystomas) I just think the likelihood of there being subspecies is fairly high even if it's just a local variant that is consistently different.
 

piranhaman00

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The bottom picture you can see the patterns of two more. They both look pretty normally striped just more yellow, Im inclined to agree with same species just odd pattern.
 
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