Looking for solitary earth eaters

[Mythic Figment]

So I eventually plan to have a 6', 180+ gallon tank with a chocolate cichlid and two notatus severums. I figure they will take up a good chunk of my middle/top space and want to get a couple of earth eaters. Trick is that I don't want to have to keep a group of a single species, so I am looking for advice on which species of earth eaters do best solo.

The only one I know for sure of is the 'Geophagus' brasiliensis.

I would consider a group if they don't reach more than 4-5" and can be kept in a small group of four so that I could manage to squeeze two groups into the tank.

Would one or more of the Satanoperca or Retroculus species be okay singly?

What about a Geo species besides the brasiliensis?


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[darth pike]

Not sure I'd trust a 'Geophagus' brasiliensis with such mild stock, given my experience with them. If you could get the much smaller 'Geophagus' iporangensis instead, I might try that one from the Brasiliensis group.

Otherwise, I'd try a Threadfin, Acarichthys heckelii. Remember, before DNA testing they used to be considered an acara.

Satanoperca are even more group orientated that Geophagus species are. Retroculus aren't geo's (stupid, confusing DNA).

 

[Mythic Figment]

Not sure I'd trust a 'Geophagus' brasiliensis with such mild stock, given my experience with them. If you could get the much smaller 'Geophagus' iporangensis instead, I might try that one from the Brasiliensis group.

Otherwise, I'd try a Threadfin, Acarichthys heckelii. Remember, before DNA testing they used to be considered an acara.

Satanoperca are even more group orientated that Geophagus species are. Retroculus aren't geo's (stupid, confusing DNA).

I'm not a fan of the brasiliensis, so no worries about keeping one there.

I have kept heckelii in the past and felt they stayed higher in the water column than I would prefer, but definitely an option.

I figured as much wight the Satanoperca, but have seen some people keep them singly (though often with complaints about negative behavior). I know Retroculus aren't Geos, but they are an earth eater, right? Would they be okay to keep singly?

What about any other Geos? Not the biggest fan of the 'Geo.' brasiliensis types.

If there are no other earth eaters that can be kept singly, what are some species of small geos (not gymnos) that I could keep two groups of four each?


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[ryansmith83]

They're not eartheaters from a classification standpoint. They've been assigned their own tribe, Retroculini.

Most geos as adults would probably be okay on their own, or kept in pairs or small groups. I kept my two adult winemilleri with a group of G. brachybranchus and various severums.

Don't underestimate the 'Geophagus' brasiliensis types. I didn't think I cared for them either but I grew out some Red Bahia and they were beautiful fish. They may push your notatus around, though. Their aggression is similar to green terrors.

 

[tlindsey]

Redhead Tapajos

 

[Mythic Figment]

They're not eartheaters from a classification standpoint. They've been assigned their own tribe, Retroculini.

Most geos as adults would probably be okay on their own, or kept in pairs or small groups. I kept my two adult winemilleri with a group of G. brachybranchus and various severums.

Don't underestimate the 'Geophagus' brasiliensis types. I didn't think I cared for them either but I grew out some Red Bahia and they were beautiful fish. They may push your notatus around, though. Their aggression is similar to green terrors.

Interesting. I had thought Retroculus were earth eaters, especially since they sift sand a lot. Good to know though.

Do you mean grow the geos out in groups and then single them out, or growing them out and keep them singly?

I would love to breed green terrors, but I am not a fan of anything that gets a nuchal hump. :/


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[RD.]

Not sure I'd trust a 'Geophagus' brasiliensis with such mild stock, given my experience with them.

+1

I once kept a lone male iporangensis, and even with much larger fish he was a little PITA. lol

Satanoperca are even more group orientated that Geophagus species are.

Not from what I've read from at least one collectors account. According to Lee Newman from the Vancouver Aquarium, in the wild Satanoperca are typically seen in pairs, or individually. The following is a direct quote of his from a comment that he made many years back on cichlid forum.

Over the last few years I've found that keeping demonfish in groups works much better with juveniles than adults, which are best kept in pairs in mixed community groups. In four trips to South America in search of demonfish I have never seen, or caught, more than a pair of adults at any one time. That would suggest that, depite their seemingly social nature in our aquaria, adults do not travel or hang out together as much as we might think.

Hope that helps.

Lee

 

[darth pike]

Yeah, my little 4" brasiliensis took out a 7" silversaum. Was not a happy camper. He also took out a 5" royal pleco. Needless to say I have avoided them since.

That's interesting, do you know where he published that? Collectors I've read accounts of mention groups of 5+, two keeping an eye out for predators while the others sift.

 

[RD.]

It was a part of a direct quote that Lee made 9 yrs ago on cichlid-forum. I was a mod there back in those days and tended to tuck little gems of wisdom like that away. I'm no longer a member, but Lee's user ID is newmanl if you want to try and track it down.

newmanl



Joined: 27 Dec 2003

Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:54 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

Sexing demonfish like it has been said is very difficult, but the general guidelines usually apply - males are usually larger and typically more assertive.

The general concensus on how old they are at sexual competence is about 1.5 to 2 years. The fish usually are about 4" or 10cm SL before they take a real interest in spawning. Having said that I've had fish that were about 10-12 months old when they first spawned - the "adults" were just over 2.5" or 7 cm and only produced a very small number of eggs and subsequent fry. I suppose it somewhat depends on the conditions they are provided.

Also, community and post-spawning management choices are affect by exactly what species you have - if by jurupari you mean the speckle-faced demonfish S. leucosticta, grouping the fish together and removing the surplus individuals after a pair has spawned is the best way to assure yourself of fry (usually). In most cases the pair will continue to get along - however, intervene by removing the male if they don't. If on the other hand you do have S. jurupari (no speckles on the operculum) then removing all of the other individuals (including the lucky male) would be a good idea if it is fry you want. The spawning male will relentlessly chase the brooding female if given the chance. The immediate mouth-brooding types seem to function as polygamous spawners in aquaria while in the field we caught brooding pairs. Behavioural plasticity in action!

Over the last few years I've found that keeping demonfish in groups works much better with juveniles than adults, which are best kept in pairs in mixed community groups. In four trips to South America in search of demonfish I have never seen, or caught, more than a pair of adults at any one time. That would suggest that, depite their seemingly social nature in our aquaria, adults do not travel or hang out together as much as we might think.

Hope that helps.

Lee

 

[darth pike]

Yeah, I used to be a member there as well under a slightly different handle, and have chatted with Lee a few times (He's one of my heros breeding S. daemon). I thought he was collecting during breeding season, hence the pairs, but might be worth logging back in and seeing if he is still active there or the CRC to ask. My memory isn't as good as it used to be as I get older, and I'm not smart enough to save stuff like that like you.