Mixing african and american cichlids, and cichlid water parameters

[piranha45]

I am a huge fan of mixing Americans with Africans , particularly when mixing central americans and africans, as their endemic water types are so similar.

I'd like to say that even south americans and rift lake africans would work fine-- given the countless different water types used by keepers of CAs, SAs, and Rift Lakers, although that could be considered a controversial statement. I haven't tried much in the way of SAs and Rift Lakers but for about 6 months, when I kept a green terror with malawi/tang cichlids in hard water of pH 8. I must say the GTs in my LFSes look perfectly healthy, as did my own GT until the day my Texas decided to slay him. Things like this really make me ponder over the necessity of specific water parameters for cichlids of all types.

My water as well as my city's water is around 9 degrees GH with pH of 8.1 or so. Kribs, jewels, redbelly pikes and GTs seem to do just as well in it as tropheus, frontosa and any CA cichlid you can shake a stick at.

I'd like to state a personal, not-fully-tested theory that as long as your water parameters aren't subject to regular serious change, your cichlids will live perfectly healthily, regardless of what their endemic water parameters may be. Now, in the relatively loooong run, I speculate that water parameters might have more bearing on deciding whether a given fish will naturally 10 years, or 15 years.

A potential crux of this argument is that we are generally limited to judging how healthy our fish are by a distant visual examination of the fish's outer body. We can't give our fish cancer checkups or monitor their bowel movements. But since distant visual exams are about as good as we can reasonably get, they are the standard for judging fish health.



This is just a wandering drivel of my thoughts/observations on the matter of cichlid water parameters and mixing different cichlids; I plodded on multiple issues to discuss if anyone is feeling so inclined.

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[M|L]

I have kept countless species of cichlids and I must agree with you. Most of the commonly available cichlids in petstores have been bred in captivity over tens (perhaps even hundreds) of generations and are fully adapted to life in fish tanks. It is generally agreed by most experienced keepers that as long as fluctuations in pH are kept to a minimum and extremes are avoided, cichlids can happily live in pH 8.0 water.

 

[Caveman]

I have mixed Africans and American Cichlids various times. Many of the faster Lake Malawi Cichlids make great target fish for large C.A. Cichlids.

 

[The Mule]

I have kept ****less species of cichlids

Really, Ming? You're trying to keep them from breeding I guess.

 

[Ron R.]

Mixing SA and Africans has never been a problem for me. I've bred fronts successfully with a large silver aro hovering over them. Most fish you see in the lfs were bred in tanks with water pretty much similar to what you would have coming out of your tap. Wild caught fish are a bit more finicky, but can be aclimated as well.

You are correct, there is alot of controversy from purists that believe you cannot mix the two..........almost to the point of making you feel that one of the species suffers from not having the soft, hard, acidic or alkaline water FO's (wild, native fish) come from.

I think the difficulty in keeping some species together comes more from diet i.e. keeping tropheus with frontosas. Although tropheus are more sensitive to water and temp fluctuations than my fronts were, the diet was the killer. Tropheus like a vegetable based diet where fronts need to have some meat in their diet. Fronts can eat the veggie based diet where tropheus cannot have alot of meat in their diet because they get the bloat.

This has been my experience on this subject.

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[piranha45]

I fully concur with you on the tropheus, Ron. I had a duboisi in my setups. I fed him the same thing I fed all the other fish - high-protein kensfish pellets. He actually did quite fine for about 8 months (he was king of all the africans in the tank, actually, even though he was hardly the largest). Then, suddenly, one day I noticed his abdominal area was a good deal fatter than usual, and he was listless. He died a couple hours later.

 

[grenade3]

I personaly think that mixing africans and central/south americans is a personal choice. it makes sense that fish from the same regions would need the same water conditions but unless the fish are wild caught i dont see why it matters. I have had wild caught cichlids that are used to certain types of water temperatures and ph levels that have not done well with other fish i got from my work at a LFS. currently I am holding 2 managuenes (mated) for a guy who bought them. I got two wild caught frontosas from some guy who could no longer keep them who came into my store. I only have a 60 gallon but did not want to pass up the fish so i took them and put them in the Jags. So far it has been 3 days and everything is fine. the frotosas love the same Cichlid Gold i feed them and the managuenes stays out of thier way completley. This is just my story on the issue. P.S. I am adding tropheus with my frontosas pretty soon. anyone have any (any morph is fine) that they would like to sell??

 

[sicklid-holic]

It dont matter, I mixed CA and africans constantly and I find the african mbuna to be a better target fish in my CA tank than smaller CA fish, african mbuna are mean fish for there size.

 

[fsc46]

I fully concur with you on the tropheus, Ron. I had a duboisi in my setups. I fed him the same thing I fed all the other fish - high-protein kensfish pellets. He actually did quite fine for about 8 months (he was king of all the africans in the tank, actually, even though he was hardly the largest). Then, suddenly, one day I noticed his abdominal area was a good deal fatter than usual, and he was listless. He died a couple hours later.

It died from bloat. To much protien in it's diet. Next time you or anyone has that problem add epsom salt to the tank. I pour it right in, and it can't hurt the fish. it works like a laxative and you will see it all over the tank. just do a water change and they will be fine. usually but not always it will clear the bloat. you will know for sure when it eats again it's fine. other wise treat the tank again with the fish friendly, wallet friendly salt!

 

[mjime714]

man.. I am so tempted to mix my Africans with some CA's, but my tank is too small. (HINT HINT to Wifey!!!! 100 gal for valentines day!)

Do you start your CA's and Africans at the same size or make sure one is larger than the other?