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Red Devil lips.....

David R

David R

Blue Tier VIP
MFK Member
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18912-fat-lips-evolve-at-record-speed.html

Just found this article on another forum and found it a little strange as IIRC people have said that the large lips found on wild caught fish are a lot less pronounced on their captive raised fry that aren't using them constantly as they would in habitat.

Are the lips a hereditary trait that will be passed from parents to offspring regardless of environmental factors?
 
i always thought the smaller lips resulted in hybrid red devil mixed with midas.. true red devils have very large fat lips.. midas small and thin..
 
yeah this is definitely true, so im totally not sure on the genetics of this and this is just an educated guess, but this would make me think that it is some kind of gene that they do pass onto their young but that must have a switch that turns off the growth to that area if its not being used. there are many traits that have these switches so im thinking that for RD this must be one of those, though maybe someone that knows the more scientific reason why will chime in

and red devil, from what i have seen the pure RD will still have larger lips than the midas and still be more pointed and everything but they are still not nearly as large as they are on the wild ones (wild ones look like they got lip injections haha)
 
Sarah88;4153007; said:
yeah this is definitely true, so im totally not sure on the genetics of this and this is just an educated guess, but this would make me think that it is some kind of gene that they do pass onto their young but that must have a switch that turns off the growth to that area if its not being used. there are many traits that have these switches so im thinking that for RD this must be one of those, though maybe someone that knows the more scientific reason why will chime in

and red devil, from what i have seen the pure RD will still have larger lips than the midas and still be more pointed and everything but they are still not nearly as large as they are on the wild ones (wild ones look like they got lip injections haha)
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Haha.. love it;)
 
Genotype and phenotype are two different things. Just because they don't show them in captive second and third generations doesn't mean the genetics for fat lips aren't there.
 
Modest_Man;4153115; said:
Genotype and phenotype are two different things. Just because they don't show them in captive second and third generations doesn't mean the genetics for fat lips aren't there.
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I think if you put a captive breed RD back into the wild or even into a pond for that matter they would start comming back, do to the way they feed and forage in the wild. Someone must have done this to be able to say weather I'm right or wrong about this.
 
Aquanero;4153150; said:
Modest_Man;4153115; said:
Genotype and phenotype are two different things. Just because they don't show them in captive second and third generations doesn't mean the genetics for fat lips aren't there.
Click to expand...
I think if you put a captive breed RD back into the wild or even into a pond for that matter they would start comming back, do to the way they feed and forage in the wild. Someone must have done this to be able to say weather I'm right or wrong about this.
Click to expand...

Would be interesting to find out how quickly F2-3 captive bred RD's originally from wild fat-lipped parents would develop the lips if placed in an environment that required them for feeding. Weeks, months, years or generations?
 
haha sounds like experiment time to me!!! anyone in a warm area have a nice outside pond they can use to test our little question here??? i say get some devil siblings no more than F3 away from the wild, put half in the pond and half in the tank as young fish and try to recreate natural feeding habits as much as possible in the pond and see what happens
 
I do love how they refer to Labiatus as a "new variety" when they have been in the hobby for some time. Someone didn't do their homework. lol The whole Amphilophus Tree is an example of Evolution. You can easily write pages of a report on Labiatus Vs Citrinellus Vs Zaliosus. For example.... Zal's might have a similar build to Lab's, but they are built for speed and open water. Lab's tend to hang around cover. Zal's don't have the lips of their cousin, but their teeth more then make up for it.:D

Just goes to show you can compair any two Amphilophus and you can get in this debate.;)
 
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