Red Tail Catfish, At Top of Tank

[Silent_Revelation]

Hello all, a very young red tail catfish of mine, about a month old and about 1.5 inches long has been spending progressively more and more time at the top of the tank. Ordinarily, this wouldn’t be cause for concern, but the catfish has gone from very rarely doing it, to almost always being at the top of the tank. Additionally, a similar circumstance occurred with another RTC of mine, started spending more and more time at the top of the tank, woke up to him gasping at the bottom of the tank overturned. He unfortunately passed away despite me using every treatment method available.

Tank conditions:
The tank is a ten gallon grow out/quarantine tank. I have about 2 bubblers both meant for 40 gallon tanks in there, and the filter is for a standard ten gallon tank. Once the fish began spending more and more time at the top of the water, I started treating with a variety of medications. Melafix, Furan-2, General Cure (parasite), metroplex, along with salt treatments (minor because of catfish salt sensitivity).
Ammonia and nitrite are at 0, nitrate around 30. The fish lives alone, with three separate structures in the tank meant for cover. He formerly utilized them extensively before he started spending time at the top of the tank. He has only been fed Hikari carnivore pellets. He is currently feeding. The tank is kept around 79 degrees, and is lighted via other tank’s aquarium lights. The substrate of the tank is glass marbles. The fish’s coloration is normal, no excess slime coat or overtly cloudy eyes. The catfish was kept with another red tail purchased from a separate store temporarily. This was the aforementioned red tail that passed away.
While I’m inexperienced, it does not appear to be swim bladder disease, the fish does appears to be able to freely control their own buoyancy, however, again, I am inexperienced so please take this with a grain of salt. Lastly, when the fish does go down and stop spending time at the top of the tank, it is almost always when the lights are turned off.

Is my fish sick? If so, what can I do to help him?

 

[Fishman Dave]

Hi and welcome.
what is the purpose of the glass marbles?
this makes the bottom uneven and waste gets trapped under/ between them and in a 10g quarantine can very quickly turn the water.
you have mentioned quite a number of meds there.
any med needs to be used as per the instructions on the bottle and very few can be used either together or before a 50% water change AND a week between. Again, make sure you read the lables. Before doing any treatment though you need to be sure you have a diagnosis, as cats are very sensitive to meds. The melafix is a good general tonic.
Personally, remove the marbles, 50% water change for equally good water, and a period of less lights for a while to get him settled.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Extremely well asked question. I love it. Thank you.

Hello all, a very young red tail catfish of mine, about a month old and about 1.5 inches long has been spending progressively more and more time at the top of the tank. Ordinarily, this wouldn’t be cause for concern, but the catfish has gone from very rarely doing it, to almost always being at the top of the tank.
No, this is always a concern. Any noticeable change in behavior is, especially such an ominous one.

Additionally, a similar circumstance occurred with another RTC of mine, started spending more and more time at the top of the tank, woke up to him gasping at the bottom of the tank overturned. He unfortunately passed away despite me using every treatment method available.
So there is a pattern and a common cause more than likely.

The tank is a ten gallon grow out/quarantine tank.
Tiny tanks are prone to great many factors that never endanger bigger tanks. Something usual - a temperature fluctuation, sun light, AC or heater, unusually hot or cold day, etc. Something out of the left field - someone sprays an aerosol in the room, an air freshener, or a cleaner, what not. It gets in the water, not much is needed because there is so little water, poisons it.

I have about 2 bubblers both meant for 40 gallon tanks in there, and the filter is for a standard ten gallon tank.
Which means the filter is tiny but with two bubblers your DO (dissolved oxygen) should be adequate, I'd think.

Once the fish began spending more and more time at the top of the water, I started treating with a variety of medications. Melafix, Furan-2, General Cure (parasite), metroplex, along with salt treatments (minor because of catfish salt sensitivity).
Probably a huge mistake. I used to be the same, so speaking from experience... anything wrong - run for a med, instead of the test kit or troubleshooting the tank thoroughly and diligently. Unless you had a reason to believe that it could have been gill flukes, which is why the fish raised to the top to the most oxygen rich water, I don't think you should have used any meds. One must have a diagnosis in mind before using a med, or at least a guess - is it bacterial or parasitic, external or internal? No sense in throwing a med cabinet at the problem.

Ammonia and nitrite are at 0, nitrate around 30.
Goody good. I assume by a liquid test kit. What about the pH? Is it stable? Does the water have sufficient carbonate hardness to buffer the pH and prevent it from swinging?

The fish lives alone, with three separate structures in the tank meant for cover. He formerly utilized them extensively before he started spending time at the top of the tank. He has only been fed Hikari carnivore pellets. He is currently feeding.
Good sign that not all is lost.

The tank is kept around 79 degrees, and is lighted via other tank’s aquarium lights. The substrate of the tank is glass marbles. The fish’s coloration is normal, no excess slime coat or overtly cloudy eyes.
Good. Excellent reporting.

The catfish was kept with another red tail purchased from a separate store temporarily. This was the aforementioned red tail that passed away. While I’m inexperienced, it does not appear to be swim bladder disease, the fish does appears to be able to freely control their own buoyancy, however, again, I am inexperienced so please take this with a grain of salt.
It doesn't implicate the swimming bladder at all, in my reading.

Lastly, when the fish does go down and stop spending time at the top of the tank, it is almost always when the lights are turned off.
That's a doozy. I can't come up atm with any plausible reason why... but it may not matter much, because it shouldn't go to the top in the first place.

Is my fish sick? If so, what can I do to help him?
Something's up. Try troubleshooting with a few tips I offered in this post. If you don't own a KH and GH liquid test kit, please buy it from the API.

What is the source of the marbles? Are they clean no chemicals on them, grease, lubricants, detergent? Are they pure glass? If they are painted or contain pigments or heavy metal inclusions, those could be toxic to fish. This is a highly usual choice of substrate. Given this case sounds unusual too, the common logic would tie the two unusuals together as a tentative root cause of the problem.

 

[Silent_Revelation]

The tank is a ten gallon grow out/quarantine tank.
Tiny tanks are prone to great many factors that never endanger bigger tanks. Something usual - a temperature fluctuation, sun light, AC or heater, unusually hot or cold day, etc. Something out of the left field - someone sprays an aerosol in the room, an air freshener, or a cleaner, what not. It gets in the water, not much is needed because there is so little water, poisons it.

I have about 2 bubblers both meant for 40 gallon tanks in there, and the filter is for a standard ten gallon tank.
Which means the filter is tiny but with two bubblers your DO (dissolved oxygen) should be adequate, I'd think.

Once the fish began spending more and more time at the top of the water, I started treating with a variety of medications. Melafix, Furan-2, General Cure (parasite), metroplex, along with salt treatments (minor because of catfish salt sensitivity).
Probably a huge mistake. I used to be the same, so speaking from experience... anything wrong - run for a med, instead of the test kit or troubleshooting the tank thoroughly and diligently. Unless you had a reason to believe that it could have been gill flukes, which is why the fish raised to the top to the most oxygen rich water, I don't think you should have used any meds. One must have a diagnosis in mind before using a med, or at least a guess - is it bacterial or parasitic, external or internal? No sense in throwing a med cabinet at the problem.

Ammonia and nitrite are at 0, nitrate around 30.
Goody good. I assume by a liquid test kit. What about the pH? Is it stable? Does the water have sufficient carbonate hardness to buffer the pH and prevent it from swinging?

The fish lives alone, with three separate structures in the tank meant for cover. He formerly utilized them extensively before he started spending time at the top of the tank. He has only been fed Hikari carnivore pellets. He is currently feeding.
Good sign that not all is lost.

The tank is kept around 79 degrees, and is lighted via other tank’s aquarium lights. The substrate of the tank is glass marbles. The fish’s coloration is normal, no excess slime coat or overtly cloudy eyes.
Good. Excellent reporting.

The catfish was kept with another red tail purchased from a separate store temporarily. This was the aforementioned red tail that passed away. While I’m inexperienced, it does not appear to be swim bladder disease, the fish does appears to be able to freely control their own buoyancy, however, again, I am inexperienced so please take this with a grain of salt.
It doesn't implicate the swimming bladder at all, in my reading.

Lastly, when the fish does go down and stop spending time at the top of the tank, it is almost always when the lights are turned off.
That's a doozy. I can't come up atm with any plausible reason why... but it may not matter much, because it shouldn't go to the top in the first place.

Is my fish sick? If so, what can I do to help him?
Something's up. Try troubleshooting with a few tips I offered in this post. If you don't own a KH and GH liquid test kit, please buy it from the API.

What is the source of the marbles? Are they clean no chemicals on them, grease, lubricants, detergent? Are they pure glass? If they are painted or contain pigments or heavy metal inclusions, those could be toxic to fish. This is a highly usual choice of substrate. Given this case sounds unusual too, the common logic would tie the two unusuals together as a tentative root cause of the problem.

Hi, I just ran out of gh and kh testing kits, I'll order some immediately. However, from what I remember last time I tested, kh is relatively high around 120 (this is true of all my tanks due to the water in my area) and gh hovers around 30-60. pH is 7.0.

There is no sunlight going into the tanks, only a florescent light.

Curiously today, when I woke up, the catfish was at the bottom of the tank and was behaving normal. He's been that way all day. I removed the marbles and did a 50% water change, and then a minor 15% later in the day. I added a small amount of bacteria, to combat the massive amount of waste that had accumulated under the pure glass marbles. Now that the lights are off, the catfish is still swimming higher in the tank, but closer to the middle of the water column as opposed to the top. This appears to be similar to normal food hunting behaviors, albeit slightly higher in the water column then usual. Per your instructions, I ceased all medications excluding Melafix.

Is there anything you advise for the time being? Should I upgrade the filter in the tank at all? Thank you for your assistance.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Hi, I just ran out of gh and kh testing kits, I'll order some immediately. However, from what I remember last time I tested, kh is relatively high around 120 (this is true of all my tanks due to the water in my area) and gh hovers around 30-60. pH is 7.0.
Sounds good, I can't imagine your pH swinging, unless, as you said below, you have allowed a LOT of detritus to accumulate in the glass marble substrate (like Dave says, bad choice). Detritus always consumes the carbonate hardness and once sufficiently consumed, the pH will slide lower and lower. Water change - sudden swing up of the pH. Fish gets stressed, if the swing is by 1 whole unit (which equals 10x; a swing by 2 units equals a 100x change), fish can go into shock. And so on.

There is no sunlight going into the tanks, only a florescent light.
OK.

Curiously today, when I woke up, the catfish was at the bottom of the tank and was behaving normal. He's been that way all day. I removed the marbles and did a 50% water change, and then a minor 15% later in the day. I added a small amount of bacteria, to combat the massive amount of waste that had accumulated under the pure glass marbles.
This is an odd statement. You have removed a lot of rotting food for the bacteria, then added the bacteria. I don't see the combating. Glad those were pure glass marbles, no funny business.

Now that the lights are off, the catfish is still swimming higher in the tank, but closer to the middle of the water column as opposed to the top. This appears to be similar to normal food hunting behaviors, albeit slightly higher in the water column then usual.
When I was raising little RTCs, they almost ever left the bottom (except IDK what they did at nights). I don't think it is normal for them to be swimming mid water. They are a bottom fish.

Per your instructions, I ceased all medications excluding Melafix.
Melafix and Pimafix are controversial. Some swear they help. The others swear it doesn't do anything whatsoever. There is almost no one in between, haha... I don't believe Mela or Pima do anything. Dave does. It doesn't really matter. They are of very mild medical effect anyway, if any. But they rob water of oxygen, one must keep in mind.

Is there anything you advise for the time being? Should I upgrade the filter in the tank at all? Thank you for your assistance.
IDK yet. The only red flag was the waste accumulation in your marble substrate, though of unknown magnitude. Let's see if your removing it helped. It will take a bit of time. If the RTC feeds, there is nothing dire to worry about yet. Bigger filter is always better but I'd not change things simultaneously as this will greatly muddle up the analysis... if learning were important.

Make sure your ammonia is really at zero. Use a vial of ammonia-free water as your reference, not the color chart.

 

[Silent_Revelation]

Per your instructions, I ceased all medications excluding Melafix.
Melafix and Pimafix are controversial. Some swear they help. The others swear it doesn't do anything whatsoever. There is almost no one in between, haha... I don't believe Mela or Pima do anything. Dave does. It doesn't really matter. They are of very mild medical effect anyway, if any. But they rob water of oxygen, one must keep in mind.

What medication(s) do you use for quarantine tanks?

 

[jjohnwm]

First of all, take out those marbles and clean them thoroughly. Then...and this part is important!...throw them away.

The "massive" amount of waste that has been exposed now can be removed and the bottom kept clean going forward. No substrate is required.

Plenty of water changes, using properly temperature-matched and de-chlorinated water, are essential. As others have stated, avoid the temptation to dump in a cocktail of mysterious medications. Would you take medicine that way yourself? If not, why would that approach work for any other living creature?

Finally...10gallon tanks are really a lousy choice for inexperienced keepers, for all the reasons mentioned earlier in this thread. It may be counterintuitive, but those small tanks are so much more difficult to maintain in a stable healthy condition than larger tanks that they are best avoided by beginning aquarists. They have their place...as quarantine tanks, or growouts for small fish (not Redtail Cats!), or perhaps spawning tanks for single pairs of small fish. But they do require much more attention and care to keep them stable.

Out of curiosity, what are your future plans for this fish as it grows? They had better be in place now, because growth will be very rapid.

 

[Silent_Revelation]

First of all, take out those marbles and clean them thoroughly. Then...throw them away.

The "massive" amount of waste that has been exposed now can be removed and the bottom kept clean going forward. No substrate is required.

Plenty of water changes, using properly temperature-matched and de-chlorinated water, are essential. As others have stated, avoid the temptation to dump in a cocktail of mysterious medications. Would you take medicine that way yourself? If not, why would that approach work for any other living creature?

Finally...10gallon tanks are really a lousy choice for inexperienced keepers, for all the reasons mentioned earlier in this thread. It may be counterintuitive, but those small tanks are so much more difficult to maintain in a stable healthy condition than larger tanks that they are best avoided by beginning aquarists. They have their place...as quarantine tanks, or growouts for small fish (not Redtail Cats!), or perhaps spawning tanks for single pairs of small fish. But they do require much more attention and care to keep them stable.

Out of curiosity, what are your future plans for this fish as it grows? They had better be in place now, because growth will be very rapid.

I have a 550 gallon tank (with one red tail catfish currently in there), a 75 gallon (the small red tail is going into there in a few days because of everyone's advice), and a 5000 gallon pond. Don't worry, I know about how large these fish grow ?

 

[jjohnwm]

Okay, so another MFK guy who lives where he can keep large tropicals outside.

I, of course, now hate you.

 

[cichlid tank]

Okay, so another MFK guy who lives where he can keep large tropicals outside.

I, of course, now hate you.

haha poor canadian