Okay, someone tell me not to. I have MI 7.6-7.8 pH water. I see that snookn21 has a ton of wild caught uaru pandas in stock. I was thinking of picking some up, but really dont want to adjust/play around with my waters parameters. I shouldn't get them right? I was thinking of picking up a 4" pair.
Uaru Panda
- Thread starter Tig Phish
- Start date
In water like yours, I wouldn't. They're likely to get HITH and wither away. The wilds also tend to crash a few weeks after import unless people really know what they're doing to acclimate them.
I haven't kept them before and was interested just like you until I started reading other people's experience with them ultimately going to an RO mix due to HTH and/or worse.
If you do decide to get them, keep us posted. Snookn21 keeps his fish in pH 7+. I got wild heckels from him and they are doing fine in my tap which comes to 6.8.
I have always wanted fenandez...., but my water was similar to yours, Lake Michigan water with pH in the high 7s, and high conductivity, so I never took the chance of getting them, and watching them wither away.
I have a feeling that if you could infuse your water with a high tannin content, using peat, almond, or other leaves, you might have a chance. Because that species natural waters have a high tannin content, which is unsuitable for certain pathogenic bacteria to survive. This may be a bigger problem than pH alone, becaus high pH, and conductivity are the soup of choice for bacteria such as HITH, and other maladies S Americans cichlids of that area seem very prone to.
I believe this is the reason we see so many oscars with HITH, although not as acute for them as the Uaru, the lack of tannin along with high pH acts as to caue chronic maladies over time.
I have a feeling that if you could infuse your water with a high tannin content, using peat, almond, or other leaves, you might have a chance. Because that species natural waters have a high tannin content, which is unsuitable for certain pathogenic bacteria to survive. This may be a bigger problem than pH alone, becaus high pH, and conductivity are the soup of choice for bacteria such as HITH, and other maladies S Americans cichlids of that area seem very prone to.
I believe this is the reason we see so many oscars with HITH, although not as acute for them as the Uaru, the lack of tannin along with high pH acts as to caue chronic maladies over time.
Not long before I moved, I was experimenting with he use of local leaves to provide tannin on a small scale for wild type bettas, I realize of course these are not cichlids, but they are endemic to the same water conditions as the ferandez.
I use maple, and magnolia leaves, with enough success to get the bettas to spawn.
I would boil the leaves, and after cooled, mix the very brown tannin stained water in with my regular tap water, water changes, and scatter the leaves in the bottom of the mouth brooding betta tanks.
I use maple, and magnolia leaves, with enough success to get the bettas to spawn.
I would boil the leaves, and after cooled, mix the very brown tannin stained water in with my regular tap water, water changes, and scatter the leaves in the bottom of the mouth brooding betta tanks.
I think their water requirements and the reason they crash on import are related, but maybe not in the way some people think. I don't think they crash because they cannot acclimate to harder, more alkaline water, but because of the conditions brought about by said water.
Panda uaru and Pterophyllum altum are very similar. Their initial acclimation often proves disastrous, but once you have them through it, they are often just as tough as any other cichlid. I believe that it is not the actual higher pH or hardness that gets them, but the fact that blackwater species are coming from very pure, nearly sterile water. Then they're put into vats and aquariums under stress, where they're introduced to various bacteria and pathogens in levels higher than they've ever encountered. I believe their immune system, weakened by stress, is often overwhelmed by these pathogens which leads to the crash. They almost always crash because of something like velvet, bacterial infection, columnaris, etc.
Most people who have luck acclimating altums and panda uaru do so with very soft, acidic water and also a round of prophylactic medications. I know people who immediately bring them in and start treating them.
I do not think healthy, acclimated pandas have a problem adapting to harder, more alkaline water. I have seen them happily living in it. They will eat, and fight, and act like any other cichlid. However, most will eventually develop HITH pits regardless of how clean you keep the water, and it will progress until the fish are gone. It's a gradual process, and though the fish act unaffected, I still suspect it's because the water is too hard.
Panda uaru and Pterophyllum altum are very similar. Their initial acclimation often proves disastrous, but once you have them through it, they are often just as tough as any other cichlid. I believe that it is not the actual higher pH or hardness that gets them, but the fact that blackwater species are coming from very pure, nearly sterile water. Then they're put into vats and aquariums under stress, where they're introduced to various bacteria and pathogens in levels higher than they've ever encountered. I believe their immune system, weakened by stress, is often overwhelmed by these pathogens which leads to the crash. They almost always crash because of something like velvet, bacterial infection, columnaris, etc.
Most people who have luck acclimating altums and panda uaru do so with very soft, acidic water and also a round of prophylactic medications. I know people who immediately bring them in and start treating them.
I do not think healthy, acclimated pandas have a problem adapting to harder, more alkaline water. I have seen them happily living in it. They will eat, and fight, and act like any other cichlid. However, most will eventually develop HITH pits regardless of how clean you keep the water, and it will progress until the fish are gone. It's a gradual process, and though the fish act unaffected, I still suspect it's because the water is too hard.
Totally agree with this comment. I have never believed that pH is the problem, it's the pathogens typically found in hard water with higher pH values that is the problem. In their natural water these fish would never encounter these bacteria, they swim in an acidic soup where most of these bacteria will not survive. Natural tannins, various other natural turpines and chemicals found in indigenous plant matter may not only keep the pH buffered quite low, but some of these various indigenous plant matter are also known to produce antimicrobial activity that suppresses both gram positive & gram negative bacteria. (such as Terminalia catappa aka Almond leaves) Take those species out of that "protective" environment, and introduce them to parameters outside their ideal range, and a fish that comes under stress (of any form) is going to be open for invasion from any number of pathogens that it would not normally encounter in the wild.
This also explains why certain species such as this, that are healthy and even well acclimated, will over time eventually still end up with various bacterial/parasite problems along the lines of HITH. (S. vortens)
