180 degree switch in fish food: lost too many show fish, need better food

RD.

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I also read that cichlids (all or not IDK, those were studies of African cichlids) are able to adjust the length of their intestines to the currently available food source, which is mighty remarkable.
I also wanted to revisit a previous comment. In the terrestrial vs aquatic plant matter discussion I posted the following, a quote from the study that the German group performed on Tanganyika, regarding gastrointestinal plasticity. It's not something just seen in various species of cichlids, or even fish, but also seen in reptiles, birds, and rodents.

"Second, intestinal plasticity has been demonstrated experimentally in perch (Olsson et al. 2007), prickleback fish (German et al. 2006) and Tropheus (P. McIntyre and Y. Vadeboncoeur, unpublished data), and observations in Lake Malawi cichlids suggest shortening of the gut in mouthbrooding females that are unable to feed regularly (Reinthal 1989). More generally, plasticity in internal organs in response to environmental stimuli has been documented in many vertebrates (reviewed in Piersma & Lindstrom 1997; Starck 1999), including fasting snakes (Starck & Beese 2002), migrating birds (Karasov et al. 2004) and rodents in fluctuating environments (Naya, Bozinovic & Karasov 2008), and the physiological mechanisms underlying gastrointestinal plasticity are well understood in several taxa (Starck 2003). Thus, we believe that the observed variation in T. brichardi intestine length is a largely plastic response to differences in the nutrient content of their algal diet."


I understand that in nature many complicated and often misunderstood processes take place, and that we are always left somewhat guessing at a lot of how this will all play out in a glass box, IME, many of the species that were once considered specialized feeders (in nature) that required specialized diets (in captivity) has not played out to be true.
 
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esoxlucius

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I also wanted to revisit a previous comment. In the terrestrial vs aquatic plant matter discussion I posted the following, a quote from the study that the German group performed on Tanganyika, regarding gastrointestinal plasticity. It's not something just seen in various species of cichlids, or even fish, but also seen in reptiles, birds, and rodents.

"Second, intestinal plasticity has been demonstrated experimentally in perch (Olsson et al. 2007), prickleback fish (German et al. 2006) and Tropheus (P. McIntyre and Y. Vadeboncoeur, unpublished data), and observations in Lake Malawi cichlids suggest shortening of the gut in mouthbrooding females that are unable to feed regularly (Reinthal 1989). More generally, plasticity in internal organs in response to environmental stimuli has been documented in many vertebrates (reviewed in Piersma & Lindstrom 1997; Starck 1999), including fasting snakes (Starck & Beese 2002), migrating birds (Karasov et al. 2004) and rodents in fluctuating environments (Naya, Bozinovic & Karasov 2008), and the physiological mechanisms underlying gastrointestinal plasticity are well understood in several taxa (Starck 2003). Thus, we believe that the observed variation in T. brichardi intestine length is a largely plastic response to differences in the nutrient content of their algal diet."


I understand that in nature many complicated and often misunderstood processes take place, and that we are always left somewhat guessing at a lot of how this will all play out in a glass box, IME, many of the species that were once considered specialized feeders (in nature) that required specialized diets (in captivity) has not played out to be true.
Interesting. So fish, reptiles, rodents and birds, even within the same species can have different lengths of digestive tracts depending on how much food they get? Makes complete sense really. I wonder if any such studies have been done on humans. Western populations as opposed to African for example where starvation is always an issue.
 

RD.

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Not necessarily how much, in some cases it's simply a matter of what types of food the fish is eating. Food of low nutrient value require longer retention times in the gut (longer gut) in order to get all of the nutrient value out of each mouthful. I linked to the full paper in the previous discussion.
 
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Galantspeedz

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If you are going through 40lb of pellets a month and not paying wholesale prices.

You should consider contacting the manufacturers to ask them for wholesale prices even if you need to order 2-3 months supply.

Quite sure your consumption is more than what some LFS or online seller can sell
 
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fishdance

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Hello Viktor,
Some observations based on my experiences.

As you are feeding fresh/frozen food, the dry food /pellet supplement can (& should) contain a lot of filler. A large component of food passes through bigger fish undigested especially if feeding frequently.

It is hard to train larger predatory fish to eat sparingly as their natural instinct is to fill up as they don't know when the next meal will occur. While it is beneficial for fish, filtration and maintenance to feed small amounts more often, perhaps it is best to follow nature and feed once every few weeks ? You can put more effort into fresh/frozen food this way.

Aquaculture pellets have different goals from what you & I require. Some common goals do overlap such as storage, convenience, nutrition, cost & growth but aquaculture food producers assume a commercial scale support system with enormous water change regime & filtration so water clarity is a minor consideration. Tannic colouration, oil slicks, total consumption, etc.

Similarly aquarium food has different goals to what a large scale fish keeper wants but is more aligned. The biggest killer of aquarium fish is overfeeding.

You will have to walk the balence between these worlds but once you know what your priorities are, you will be able to achieve the best solution to your needs.

I have my own pellet mill and making your own food mix can be as simple or as complicated as to want it to be. Many hobbyists make a frozen mix with a chest freezer. Third world aquaculture use the sun to dry & preserve pellets (with a hand grinder) or small whole salted fish to preserve. The heat generated from pressure of pellet mill cooks, dries and preserves the pellets. The amount of air dictates a floating or sinking pellet.
Also finding a reliable supply of consistent and quality ingredients can be difficult. Even though the commercial aquarium labels list ingredients, I do wonder if those are possible due to the variation of supply chains.

The biggest risk of volume purchase or own production is storage. You can wipe out all your fish overnight if food is not kept well. Everyone knows this but almost everyone learns the hard way the importance of preservatives.

Some suggestions below as only you will know what is best.

* Consider adding a stimulant to existing cheap food to encourage consumption? Tuna oil, garlic is an obvious candidate. Perhaps duckweed or cabbage. For omnivorous species, I add rice & green peas.

* Combining expensive and cheap food (filler) together. I'm sure you are already doing this. Don't neglect to investigate dry cat or dog food sources as well as aquaculture. These may not be accepted by fish on their own but do well in combination. Either fed together or physically combined (as a filler).

* Running a school of live food with your fish. I tried tinfoil barbs (bit aggressive), sutchi sharks (have sharp fins when small ) & silver sharks (best so far). Anything that has large numbers of eggs and fast growth rate can be used. Not sure what your breeding experience is however. The benefit is a clean up gang. You feed the food fish and let the predators do what is natural. Another variation is to grow plants, insects or worms to feed your fish.

Sometimes convenience wins and I use a commercial product.
 
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thebiggerthebetter

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Thank you guys all for your helpful, edifying input.

Just an update. I had entirely forsaken Ziegler and have been feeding exclusively NLS basic formula for about 1.5 years now. Up until half a year ago, I was buying it retail on Amazon (~$10/lb). Then I approached NLS, who happen to have an office relatively close by, in Homestead, Florida, and they helped me get on board with a local distributor of their product, so I've been able to buy NLS wholesale, which made our wallet happy.
 

fishdance

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Not sure what's required in USA but can't any registered business buy from wholesale or import distributors? That would open up a lot of other brands.

I use a heat sealer, clear plastic bags and oxygen removing satchels to store bulk food. Write the bagging date and kept in an unused chest freezer to prevent rats and heat. I try to have a weekly amount per bag.

The freezer isn't on. It's just used as an insulated rodent proof container.
 
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