2+ Months Battling Reoccuring HITH in Flowerhorn Please Help!!! :(

[RWDYMUSIC]

Have you tested your water?

Yes

If yes, what is your ammonia?

Unknown

If yes, what is your nitrite?

0.5

If yes, what is your nitrate?

30

If I did not test my water...

...I recognize that I will likely be asked to do a test, and that water tests are critical for solving freshwater health problems.

Do you do water changes?

Yes

What percentage of water do you change?

11-20%

How frequently do you change your water?

Every week

If I do not change my water...

...I recognize that I will likely be recommended to do a water change, and water changes are critical for preventing future freshwater health problems.

Hello All,

I know that there is already a sticky thread for HITH, but I feel that I have exhausted all suggested troubleshooting methods so I am really hoping someone with experience can help me. I imported a flowerhorn from MFishHouseThailand (who btw sold me a fish that already had HITH scars without notifying me of the disease before I spent almost $500 to get the fish), and I have had constant health issues since its arrival. After getting rid of an ICH infection that lasted a few weeks the fishes pre-existing HITH scars started growing rapidly when I introduced a new carbon filter. After doing all the research I could I assumed that the carbon filter I put in was the reason for the HITH flare up so I removed the carbon filter. I did daily 20% water changes and treated with salt at 2 tablespoons per 5 gallons for two weeks, and the scars appeared to still be enlarging, although much more slowly, so I purchased API General Cure to kill off any Hexamita that could have been worsening the HITH. The scars still appeared to be slowly enlarging even after the treatment but he was scratching much less than a month before so I decided to reduce the frequency of water changes to see if this was contributing. A couple weeks went by with little to no scratching and it appeared as though the HITH had finally stopped enlarging. I cut back on water changes to about 25% weekly but my nitrate levels were spiking and this caused the HITH to flare up again. After closely examining the fishes behavior and varying the frequency of water changes I am almost certain that doing water changes, large or small, agitates the HITH, stresses out the fish, and causes him to start scratching again.

The fish is about 6 inches long in a 30 gallon by himself. My water parameters are pH 7.6, GH ~300 ppm, Alkalinity ~60 ppm, nitrate levels between 20-40 ppm, and temperature constant 84 degrees F.

I am so frustrated by watching my only fish tear himself up from scratching and getting stressed for months from this disease when I have exhausted all available troubleshooting methods I can find. At this point I am starting to believe that something may be in my tap water that is agitating the HITH and preventing it from healing properly but I have no way of detecting it because all of the test kits I have used have checked out as OK across the board. I am wondering if my waters GH may be a contributing factor because my tap water has a relatively high GH and I also have to add acid to the water I add during water changes to bring the pH down from 8.5 to 7.6.
Thanks in advance to anyone that can help!!

 

[kno4te]

It’s a man made fh with a possible weak immunity and it maybe at risk of infections even hith. Keep it in mind as it may not recover and can happen.

I’d suggest reducing ur ph and Gh down with mixing ur tap with RO water. Feed some hex shield and keep ur nitrates below 20ppm as much as possible.

 

[Ruturaj]

I would do more frequent water changes, keep water quality better, get quality food, add some extra vitamins like vitachem. High GH should not be an issue.

 

[twentyleagues]

I agree with kno4te . Need to keep pH and nitrate lower both are contributing factors in hith /hlle issue. There are varying thoughts going around about carbon use possibly being linked also but I haven't seen any real evidence. If I use carbon I do so for a specific reason like to remove a med and then I stop use. Most of the fish I've seen with hith it's seems they are lower pH loving natural fish that are being kept in higher ph harder water and usually not properly cared for, Oscars immediately pop to mind. I know in general most FH keepers like to keep their fish in smaller tanks but that imo may lead to more stress on the fish and ultimately a lower resistance to disease.

 

[twentyleagues]

Hello All,

I know that there is already a sticky thread for HITH, but I feel that I have exhausted all suggested troubleshooting methods so I am really hoping someone with experience can help me. I imported a flowerhorn from MFishHouseThailand (who btw sold me a fish that already had HITH scars without notifying me of the disease before I spent almost $500 to get the fish), and I have had constant health issues since its arrival. After getting rid of an ICH infection that lasted a few weeks the fishes pre-existing HITH scars started growing rapidly when I introduced a new carbon filter. After doing all the research I could I assumed that the carbon filter I put in was the reason for the HITH flare up so I removed the carbon filter. I did daily 20% water changes and treated with salt at 2 tablespoons per 5 gallons for two weeks, and the scars appeared to still be enlarging, although much more slowly, so I purchased API General Cure to kill off any Hexamita that could have been worsening the HITH. The scars still appeared to be slowly enlarging even after the treatment but he was scratching much less than a month before so I decided to reduce the frequency of water changes to see if this was contributing. A couple weeks went by with little to no scratching and it appeared as though the HITH had finally stopped enlarging. I cut back on water changes to about 25% weekly but my nitrate levels were spiking and this caused the HITH to flare up again. After closely examining the fishes behavior and varying the frequency of water changes I am almost certain that doing water changes, large or small, agitates the HITH, stresses out the fish, and causes him to start scratching again.

The fish is about 6 inches long in a 30 gallon by himself. My water parameters are pH 7.6, GH ~300 ppm, Alkalinity ~60 ppm, nitrate levels between 20-40 ppm, and temperature constant 84 degrees F.

I am so frustrated by watching my only fish tear himself up from scratching and getting stressed for months from this disease when I have exhausted all available troubleshooting methods I can find. At this point I am starting to believe that something may be in my tap water that is agitating the HITH and preventing it from healing properly but I have no way of detecting it because all of the test kits I have used have checked out as OK across the board. I am wondering if my waters GH may be a contributing factor because my tap water has a relatively high GH and I also have to add acid to the water I add during water changes to bring the pH down from 8.5 to 7.6.
Thanks in advance to anyone that can help!!

Oh I forgot to add
The scratching may be caused by the higher hardness and pH of your water. Any idea of the parameters of the water it came from?
You also said you add acid to drop parameters of the water. Does that permanently effect change? I mean is it strong enough to actually break the buffering capacity of your water or is it a temporary and the water starts to rebound once more airation happens? Also is the acid being neutralized by your water or is it still "working" with in the tank? If you haven't checked I'd treat a bucket of water like you normally would and test it pH, gh, kh and put an air stone in for 12-24hrs and check again.
I'd also suggest the use of a ro/di unit and remineralize with some non filtered water to achieve a good water quality level.

 

[duanes]

I agree with the others that blame high nitrate created by lack of sufficient water changes.
A 10% per week water change per week (especially on such a small tank) is not sufficient.
I try to do 30%-40% every other day on 150 gallon tanks, to keep nitrate below 10 ppm.
The bacteria that cause HLLE thrive and become most virulent in high nitrate water.
And nitrate is cumulative coming from from fish waste and other metabolism in the tank, so unless you remove enough of it with each water change, your water becomes a concentrated nitrate soup.
If it were me, my "minimum" water change schedule would be 50% twice per week.

 

[RWDYMUSIC]

I agree with the others that blame high nitrate created by lack of sufficient water changes.
A 10% per week water change per week (especially on such a small tank) is not sufficient.
I try to do 30%-40% every other day on 150 gallon tanks, to keep nitrate below 10 ppm.
The bacteria that cause HLLE thrive and become most virulent in high nitrate water.
And nitrate is cumulative coming from from fish waste and other metabolism in the tank, so unless you remove enough of it with each water change, your water becomes a concentrated nitrate soup.
If it were me, my "minimum" water change schedule would be 50% twice per week.

I've been varying my water change frequency based on what seems to be comfortable for the fish. I am currently doing 25% every 2/3 days and every time I change my water it seems to stress him out, and he acts like his face is bothering him but he the stress usually goes away by the following morning.

 

[RWDYMUSIC]

Oh I forgot to add
The scratching may be caused by the higher hardness and pH of your water. Any idea of the parameters of the water it came from?
You also said you add acid to drop parameters of the water. Does that permanently effect change? I mean is it strong enough to actually break the buffering capacity of your water or is it a temporary and the water starts to rebound once more airation happens? Also is the acid being neutralized by your water or is it still "working" with in the tank? If you haven't checked I'd treat a bucket of water like you normally would and test it pH, gh, kh and put an air stone in for 12-24hrs and check again.
I'd also suggest the use of a ro/di unit and remineralize with some non filtered water to achieve a good water quality level.

I personally believe that the carbon definitely contributes because when I put in a new carbon filter without washing the dust from the filter it caused very rapid expansion of the HITH holes when I had made no other changes to my tank. I do my best to keep nitrates low, but like I mentioned before, water changes seem to stress the fish out and make the HITH flare up if I am too aggressive in adding large amounts of new water. I have not really done a thorough analysis of how my pH changes from the time I add the water, but I know that I always add the same concentration of acid to my water before adding it to the tank. I got a digital pH meter to accurately measure things, and I know that my tap water pH is around 8.5 and my tank has held steady between 7.6-7.8. I will try lowering the pH to below 7.5 this week to see if it makes him more comfortable.

 

[RWDYMUSIC]

It’s a man made fh with a possible weak immunity and it maybe at risk of infections even hith. Keep it in mind as it may not recover and can happen.

I’d suggest reducing ur ph and Gh down with mixing ur tap with RO water. Feed some hex shield and keep ur nitrates below 20ppm as much as possible.

I think genetics are a factor as well. I am well aware that there is likely inbreeding in the fishes genetic history, and he is more prone to getting diseases. He has had a few weeks where he looked very happy with no health issues so I still think that if I dial in the water parameters perfectly to his liking I can get him to stabilize and be more resilient in the long run.

 

[RWDYMUSIC]

I would do more frequent water changes, keep water quality better, get quality food, add some extra vitamins like vitachem. High GH should not be an issue.

I am changing my water as frequently as I can without stressing the fish, because like I said before, when I was doing 25% daily it seemed to be really stressing him out and it made him scratch more. He stopped accepting pellets when the HITH first flared up, so I have been feeding him Hikari freeze dried brine shrimp which is supposed to be infused with multivitamins and algae. I could try adding additional vitamins if the vitamins present in the freeze dried shrimp are insufficient.