Black African House Snake, (Lamprophis fuliginosus)

Joshuakahan

Redtail Catfish
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Jul 9, 2019
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Hi, I just picked up one of these guys and while I’ve done a ton of research,
I was hoping someone that’s kept this species can tell me if there’s anything from your experience that would be helpful
Thanks
 

Fallen_Leaves16

Dovii
MFK Member
Nov 10, 2021
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Wild-caught or captive-bred? If wild-caught, they may not eat pinkies as readily and may need frog/lizard scenting or lizards/frogs (at least in my experience; many people do say they will immediately eat pinkies but the majority of wild-caught African colubrids seem to require scenting to eat mice and should be fed lizards every now and then to lessen the probability of obesity). Deworming is often a necessity; I've had decent luck using Flagyl (metronidazole) and praziquantel. With nearly all wild-caught animals, they MUST be eating regularly or at the very least eating and at a reasonably stable weight before treatment for parasites; I made the mistake of treating fresh imports far too many times to count. African House Snakes seem to prefer a setup not unlike that of a somewhat arid hognose. Not very good with handling; small specimens seem to freak out and slither away (kind of like Thamnophis). Larger CB specimens might be better with handling, but I can't confirm.
 

Joshuakahan

Redtail Catfish
MFK Member
Jul 9, 2019
4,124
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Wild-caught or captive-bred? If wild-caught, they may not eat pinkies as readily and may need frog/lizard scenting or lizards/frogs (at least in my experience; many people do say they will immediately eat pinkies but the majority of wild-caught African colubrids seem to require scenting to eat mice and should be fed lizards every now and then to lessen the probability of obesity). Deworming is often a necessity; I've had decent luck using Flagyl (metronidazole) and praziquantel. With nearly all wild-caught animals, they MUST be eating regularly or at the very least eating and at a reasonably stable weight before treatment for parasites; I made the mistake of treating fresh imports far too many times to count. African House Snakes seem to prefer a setup not unlike that of a somewhat arid hognose. Not very good with handling; small specimens seem to freak out and slither away (kind of like Thamnophis). Larger CB specimens might be better with handling, but I can't confirm.
Thanks!
It’s a WC from snakesatsunset. According to them it’s a well established WC and eating FT fuzzies. I haven’t handled it much yet, I’m letting it settle, but so far it seemed pretty comfortable with the little handling I’ve done. I’ve thought about deworming it, but the site says it was already treated for parasites, but didn’t say what the treatment was. I’m gonna wait around 3-5 days to offer food as well unless it seems like it’s really looking for food
 
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Fallen_Leaves16

Dovii
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Nov 10, 2021
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Thanks!
It’s a WC from snakesatsunset. According to them it’s a well established WC and eating FT fuzzies. I haven’t handled it much yet, I’m letting it settle, but so far it seemed pretty comfortable with the little handling I’ve done. I’ve thought about deworming it, but the site says it was already treated for parasites, but didn’t say what the treatment was. I’m gonna wait around 3-5 days to offer food as well unless it seems like it’s really looking for food
Be careful when buying from SnakesAtSunset... They have a reputation for selling sick and/or visibly unhealthy animals. Nearly all (if not all) hognoses (only H. nasicus) they have sold reportedly suffer from neurological disorders that can manifest up to several months after purchase, and a few people have claimed that other snakes they sell (mostly colubrids) suffer from the same issues. I myself purchased a hognose that drowned himself around a year after I got him due to severe corkscrewing that appeared ~7 months after purchase, and a fire skink I had gotten from them had a massive wound right in front of its back left leg that had been healing for a short amount of time. Customer service is quite poor; most of the time you'll either get a brief response to a question or no response at all. Some of the site descriptions for animals haven't been updated in years. Because they seem to have a warehouse where most of the animals on their site are kept, I'd probably still treat your snake for parasites to err on the side of caution.
Does sound like you have a solid plan. Well-established Lamprophis make great pets. Good luck!
 

Joshuakahan

Redtail Catfish
MFK Member
Jul 9, 2019
4,124
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Be careful when buying from SnakesAtSunset... They have a reputation for selling sick and/or visibly unhealthy animals. Nearly all (if not all) hognoses (only H. nasicus) they have sold reportedly suffer from neurological disorders that can manifest up to several months after purchase, and a few people have claimed that other snakes they sell (mostly colubrids) suffer from the same issues. I myself purchased a hognose that drowned himself around a year after I got him due to severe corkscrewing that appeared ~7 months after purchase, and a fire skink I had gotten from them had a massive wound right in front of its back left leg that had been healing for a short amount of time. Customer service is quite poor; most of the time you'll either get a brief response to a question or no response at all. Some of the site descriptions for animals haven't been updated in years. Because they seem to have a warehouse where most of the animals on their site are kept, I'd probably still treat your snake for parasites to err on the side of caution.
Does sound like you have a solid plan. Well-established Lamprophis make great pets. Good luck!
Thanks for the heads up, I’ve bought from Sumset before, two corn snakes, one is still going strong and the other died in a month. Fingers crossed on this guy. I’m not as experienced buying herps online like I am with fish, are there any good sites you recommend or don’t recommend? I know backwater is garbage
 
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Joshuakahan

Redtail Catfish
MFK Member
Jul 9, 2019
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Wild-caught or captive-bred? If wild-caught, they may not eat pinkies as readily and may need frog/lizard scenting or lizards/frogs (at least in my experience; many people do say they will immediately eat pinkies but the majority of wild-caught African colubrids seem to require scenting to eat mice and should be fed lizards every now and then to lessen the probability of obesity). Deworming is often a necessity; I've had decent luck using Flagyl (metronidazole) and praziquantel. With nearly all wild-caught animals, they MUST be eating regularly or at the very least eating and at a reasonably stable weight before treatment for parasites; I made the mistake of treating fresh imports far too many times to count. African House Snakes seem to prefer a setup not unlike that of a somewhat arid hognose. Not very good with handling; small specimens seem to freak out and slither away (kind of like Thamnophis). Larger CB specimens might be better with handling, but I can't confirm.
Looks like I lucked out, he was acting hungry so I threw a FT fuzzy in and he ate it immediately

A75CBA4B-184F-441E-8EC4-886EC4F77CCB.jpeg

E4159367-4B54-416E-893F-40D4ACDE8F77.jpeg
 
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Fallen_Leaves16

Dovii
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Nov 10, 2021
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Thanks for the heads up, I’ve bought from Sumset before, two corn snakes, one is still going strong and the other died in a month. Fingers crossed on this guy. I’m not as experienced buying herps online like I am with fish, are there any good sites you recommend or don’t recommend? I know backwater is garbage
Most sites that offer wholesale or have a separate warehouse aside from a physical store location (e.g. Snakes At Sunset, Underground Reptiles, SATOO, Big Apple Herp Supply, Reptile Pets Direct, Imperial Reptiles & Exotics, XYZ Reptiles) are going to have animals of questionable quality, mainly because reptiles available in bulk quantities usually cannot be individually tended to without losing a sizable chunk of profit. It's often not possible to tell how animals in a back room of a store are being kept, which means they can be stored in subpar conditions under the semblance of good care presented by a physical store that's open to the public; as long as the public storefront is well-maintained, people will often assume that animals kept elsewhere will be under good care as well, something that can easily be false. Sites with a lot of wild-caught animals often rely on making a quick buck trying to flip cheap imports before they die, which is why they also often try to offer wholesale. While live arrival guarantees are generally a good thing, if their temperature window for the guarantee is relatively narrow (<45F) and they still ship year-round, avoid the site, for nine times out of ten they expect an animal shipped in cold/hot temps to die and don't want to be responsible for replacing or refunding the customer. If the site does not offer a way to freely write reviews and/or they have a social media page where people actively yell at them for shipping dead/dying/sick animals or any negative reviews circulate on public forums or other places, avoid them. It is still important to note that sites like the ones mentioned above will still sell healthy animals, as they still do care about the customers and the animals they sell and will attempt to keep them alive and well to some degree; it's just that they have a lot of unhealthy animals under their care and will try to sell them as well. Websites that have a multitude of rare animals for cheap prices or "too good to be true" offers (may also take on slightly altered or misspelled names of popular sites) are most likely scam sites. Nearly all "major" websites that sell reptiles online are fraudulent in some way and shouldn't be trusted.
Though it isn't a very convenient option, and still isn't the most safe, MorphMarket is similar to a modern-day Ebay (or kind of like Aquabid but without the bidding) where several breeders and/or vendors list and sell their animals; because both the customer and seller have to actively interact to buy/sell an animal, it's a bit more trustworthy as this way there's opportunities to ask questions and form a reasonable opinion on the seller without having to rely on potentially false information; the ability to ask for images and videos of an animal available for purchase to confirm the seller's validity is also another advantage of the site. Confirmed buyers can leave reviews that (as far as I'm aware) the seller cannot directly alter or remove. Then again, unscrupulous sellers still exist and scammers also are on the site (though scammers are usually quickly expunged once reported with evidence), and the user interface isn't the most convenient.
The best way to purchase reptiles is, in my opinion, attending expos and picking out animals in person, or buying animals from people you know firsthand or wholly trust from both experience and word of mouth. It's almost always going to be a gamble when purchasing animals online, which is why I don't do it much (though sometimes it's unavoidable).
When talking about buying reptiles, morality and ethics is a large factor in deciding a seller to buy from; at what point do you consider a breeder/seller to be unethical or not worth buying from? There is no breeder that is unanimously considered good; every person has their flaws and limitations. There are some that treat their breeder animals with significantly less care than they do the offspring they produce; others have a reputation for unscrupulous business practices (The Serpentarium is notable for both these points); a couple breeders actively produce offspring from illegally collected parent animals (some poison dart frog sellers are notable for this; an example of a somewhat common dart frog with very questionable origins is D. tinctorius 'Tumucumaque'), and many willingly breed animals that have health issues (like spider BPs and enigma leopard geckos) for profit. A few breeders/sellers are quite knowledgeable and have lots of experience in keeping and caring for the animals they have, but still tend to gravitate towards negative, sometimes downright dangerous care and recruit questionable employees while still being somewhat honest about the animals they sell (like NERD, for example). Occasionally, there'll be breeders that endorse the wrong products and people, while maintaining good practices themselves. The significant majority of breeders (usually snakes but also reptiles) keep their animals in what many would be considered subpar "enclosures" (like tubs/racks or extremely small spaces), but have healthy animals and aim to keep them that way. Only a very small minority keep all their animals in good enclosures and treat them as they would a cherished pet, but they do not sell a lot of animals, nor are the prices usually cheap.
The list goes on and on, but at what point do you draw the line for whether a seller is worth buying from? At some point there's going to be an animal you want that's only available from the "negative" side of the line; is it worth crossing the boundary to buy it? How much are you willing to sacrifice to care for an animal? How much do you respect the community, and to what point are you willing to shift your views to suit them? At what point is it unethical to breed or purchase certain animals? How much will it worsen the trade if I buy from a bad seller? These are all few of the many headache-inducing rabbit holes of questions that come with being part of the reptile-keeping hobby, and that's partially why I gravitate more towards fish than I do reptiles; the underlying questions are still there, but the keepers seem to make them less of a problem.
 

Joshuakahan

Redtail Catfish
MFK Member
Jul 9, 2019
4,124
3,956
154
49
Most sites that offer wholesale or have a separate warehouse aside from a physical store location (e.g. Snakes At Sunset, Underground Reptiles, SATOO, Big Apple Herp Supply, Reptile Pets Direct, Imperial Reptiles & Exotics, XYZ Reptiles) are going to have animals of questionable quality, mainly because reptiles available in bulk quantities usually cannot be individually tended to without losing a sizable chunk of profit. It's often not possible to tell how animals in a back room of a store are being kept, which means they can be stored in subpar conditions under the semblance of good care presented by a physical store that's open to the public; as long as the public storefront is well-maintained, people will often assume that animals kept elsewhere will be under good care as well, something that can easily be false. Sites with a lot of wild-caught animals often rely on making a quick buck trying to flip cheap imports before they die, which is why they also often try to offer wholesale. While live arrival guarantees are generally a good thing, if their temperature window for the guarantee is relatively narrow (<45F) and they still ship year-round, avoid the site, for nine times out of ten they expect an animal shipped in cold/hot temps to die and don't want to be responsible for replacing or refunding the customer. If the site does not offer a way to freely write reviews and/or they have a social media page where people actively yell at them for shipping dead/dying/sick animals or any negative reviews circulate on public forums or other places, avoid them. It is still important to note that sites like the ones mentioned above will still sell healthy animals, as they still do care about the customers and the animals they sell and will attempt to keep them alive and well to some degree; it's just that they have a lot of unhealthy animals under their care and will try to sell them as well. Websites that have a multitude of rare animals for cheap prices or "too good to be true" offers (may also take on slightly altered or misspelled names of popular sites) are most likely scam sites. Nearly all "major" websites that sell reptiles online are fraudulent in some way and shouldn't be trusted.
Though it isn't a very convenient option, and still isn't the most safe, MorphMarket is similar to a modern-day Ebay (or kind of like Aquabid but without the bidding) where several breeders and/or vendors list and sell their animals; because both the customer and seller have to actively interact to buy/sell an animal, it's a bit more trustworthy as this way there's opportunities to ask questions and form a reasonable opinion on the seller without having to rely on potentially false information; the ability to ask for images and videos of an animal available for purchase to confirm the seller's validity is also another advantage of the site. Confirmed buyers can leave reviews that (as far as I'm aware) the seller cannot directly alter or remove. Then again, unscrupulous sellers still exist and scammers also are on the site (though scammers are usually quickly expunged once reported with evidence), and the user interface isn't the most convenient.
The best way to purchase reptiles is, in my opinion, attending expos and picking out animals in person, or buying animals from people you know firsthand or wholly trust from both experience and word of mouth. It's almost always going to be a gamble when purchasing animals online, which is why I don't do it much (though sometimes it's unavoidable).
When talking about buying reptiles, morality and ethics is a large factor in deciding a seller to buy from; at what point do you consider a breeder/seller to be unethical or not worth buying from? There is no breeder that is unanimously considered good; every person has their flaws and limitations. There are some that treat their breeder animals with significantly less care than they do the offspring they produce; others have a reputation for unscrupulous business practices (The Serpentarium is notable for both these points); a couple breeders actively produce offspring from illegally collected parent animals (some poison dart frog sellers are notable for this; an example of a somewhat common dart frog with very questionable origins is D. tinctorius 'Tumucumaque'), and many willingly breed animals that have health issues (like spider BPs and enigma leopard geckos) for profit. A few breeders/sellers are quite knowledgeable and have lots of experience in keeping and caring for the animals they have, but still tend to gravitate towards negative, sometimes downright dangerous care and recruit questionable employees while still being somewhat honest about the animals they sell (like NERD, for example). Occasionally, there'll be breeders that endorse the wrong products and people, while maintaining good practices themselves. The significant majority of breeders (usually snakes but also reptiles) keep their animals in what many would be considered subpar "enclosures" (like tubs/racks or extremely small spaces), but have healthy animals and aim to keep them that way. Only a very small minority keep all their animals in good enclosures and treat them as they would a cherished pet, but they do not sell a lot of animals, nor are the prices usually cheap.
The list goes on and on, but at what point do you draw the line for whether a seller is worth buying from? At some point there's going to be an animal you want that's only available from the "negative" side of the line; is it worth crossing the boundary to buy it? How much are you willing to sacrifice to care for an animal? How much do you respect the community, and to what point are you willing to shift your views to suit them? At what point is it unethical to breed or purchase certain animals? How much will it worsen the trade if I buy from a bad seller? These are all few of the many headache-inducing rabbit holes of questions that come with being part of the reptile-keeping hobby, and that's partially why I gravitate more towards fish than I do reptiles; the underlying questions are still there, but the keepers seem to make them less of a problem.
I think I get what you’re saying and it makes a lot of sense. I’m much more of a fish person, but I’ve kept reptiles on n off since middle school ( late 80s) and LLL was my go to shop in the 90s and the animals and store were always nice quality, but when I read reviews about their online sales, they seem to be about the same as Reptimart or XYZ etc… which I never understood, but after reading your reply it makes sense. I used to only buy from local stores, but after many trips driving all over town and spending hours of my day not finding what I was looking for vs going online and paying $50 to have what I want shipped and not having to leave the house, I’ve been going that route. I’m probably a little naive to ethical side of the reptile and fish hobby as far as how animals are collected and cared for. I know backwater is pretty bad. I ordered something from them about 10 years ago and I had a box full of about 50 geckos arrive instead of my single lizard and they were all in horrible shape. I began calling around to local rescues to try to find a place to care for all of these and then the guy from BW called me and wanted me to take them to post office to ship to the correct customer an hour from me and he would compensate me. I said no since they were in such bad shape and didn’t think they would survive another trip ( summer in Tucson). He started yelling and cussing and all that and accused me of trying to get something out of him ( although I said I didn’t want a thing from him). About an hour later the rightful recipient called and said he could be at my place in an hour, so I gave them to him. I showed the guy what they looked like, very skinny, many with dropped tails still in the container, some doubled up in a container and had obviously fought a little and no cooling pack and he didn’t care which makes me think maybe he’s one of those crappy breeders you’re referring to.
But thanks for all the info, you’ve given a lot to think about next time I consider buying a reptile online
 
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