ID confirmation?

[Joshuakahan]

I bought this “girl”?, as simply a black lacerta. They said it was probably an Italian lacerta but I doubted that and thought it was a melanistic jeweled lacerta. It’s gone from 5”-15” since August, so I know it’s not an Italian but I’m not so sure it’s a jeweled anymore. Something ( other than the color) looks different to me from the jeweled I see on YT etc.. could it just be young still? Does it look like a melanistic jeweled to you guys?

 

[Joshuakahan]

Fallen_Leaves16

 

[Fallen_Leaves16]

Does look very much like a juvenile melanistic jeweled lacerta; individual variation is bound to exist between individuals of the same species, though I don't see much that defines the animal as separate from T. lepidus. Most Timon species will grow larger than 35cm (or so I've heard; I know T. lepidus can and will hit ~60cm TL, having seen some large specimens at expos) and so I'd expect yours has some growing to do. Excellent job caring for it- 10in in just a little over half a year is quite rapid and the lizard looks quite healthy.

 

[Joshuakahan]

Does look very much like a juvenile melanistic jeweled lacerta; individual variation is bound to exist between individuals of the same species, though I don't see much that defines the animal as separate from T. lepidus. Most Timon species will grow larger than 35cm (or so I've heard; I know T. lepidus can and will hit ~60cm TL, having seen some large specimens at expos) and so I'd expect yours has some growing to do. Excellent job caring for it- 10in in just a little over half a year is quite rapid and the lizard looks quite healthy.

Thanks, I just keep the temp and humidity correct and use the recommended UVB and it does the rest lol eats like a pig! Maybe the ones I’m looking at are fully mature adults, it has changed a lot since I got it. I’m guessing it’s to young to visually sex?
Here’s a pic of the day I got it

 

[Leonardo_CH]

Lacerta Sp. and Timon Sp. tend to be very hard to tell apart from external fisical features alone, without the help of coloration it gets almost impossible.


Melanistic jeweled lacerta (Timon lepidus ssp.)


Normal jeweled lacerta (Timon lepidus lepidus)


Southern italian lacerta (Lacerta bilineata chloronata)

Comparing head scales to me it looks like a melanistic jewled lacerta but if I have to be honest I always found them to be a bit different looking than the normal jeweleds so maybe they dont belong to that species at all or maybe to a different subspecies like Timon lepidus ibericus or Timon lepidus oteroorum, the latter being scarcely documented.

 

[Joshuakahan]

Lacerta Sp. and Timon Sp. tend to be very hard to tell apart from external fisical features alone, without the help of coloration it gets almost impossible.

View attachment 1516125
Melanistic jeweled lacerta (Timon lepidus ssp.)

View attachment 1516126
Normal jeweled lacerta (Timon lepidus lepidus)

View attachment 1516127
Southern italian lacerta (Lacerta bilineata chloronata)

Comparing head scales to me it looks like a melanistic jewled lacerta but if I have to be honest I always found them to be a bit different looking than the normal jeweleds so maybe they dont belong to that species at all or maybe to a different subspecies like Timon lepidus ibericus or Timon lepidus oteroorum, the latter being scarcely documented.

Interesting, so maybe it looks different than common jeweled lacerta because it’s a subspecies? The growth has slowed dramatically at 15-16”, but I think it’s too big to be an Italian. The shop said they thought it was an Italian but I doubted that because they had 8 of these and I found it unlikely since most Italians are wild I believe and what are the odds of getting 8 wild melanistic in one batch
Thanks for the info!