L137 - What A Mess

[Midwater]

A got an L137 a couple of weeks ago. Nice colour, about five inches, and quite outgoing.

But unlike any other L number I have had, it is a really messy eater, especially with wood. I have got two pieces of wood in this tank, one is teak, and the other is good dense asian hardwood.

Each morning I look, and there is an increasing layer of sawdust on the substrate. Being dense wood, it does not get swept over the overflow. There is one deadspot in the tank, and the sawdust gets thickest there. What a mess?

What is it going to be like when he is eight inches? Or ten inches?

Most of my other L numbers are carnivorous, and really keep the tank clean.

Anyone else had any really messy L numbers? Which ones, and what did you do?

 

[Rob909]

I had a 137 at one time and didn’t find that it was all too messy with only Malaysian driftwood in the tank. With that being said, the tank was bare bottom at the time with flow directing right to the filter intakes.
Now that I have 2 royals and a blue eye in with Malaysian and manzanita, my tank is covered with sawdust.

In my experience, I’ve found that once I place a new piece of wood in, the tank is littered with shavings. Once the wood is ground smooth by the plecos, there seems to be less free floating wood.
I also have found that when I add more food (veggies/fruits) they have dialed back on scraping the wood. Now I use it as a gauge on when I need to add more food.
You have a couple options, pull this pleco, pull that driftwood, or keep moving/adding flow to get that dead spot.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The is how planetcatfish describe the diet for you r pleco:

As with other Panaqolus, vegetables (e.g., yams, courgette, Brussels sprouts) and wood should form the core diet for L397. Also, these fish will eagerly eat meaty foods such as shrimp, clams, and live black worms; a meat meal about 1-3 days per week can help condition the fish for spawning.

The local collectors have a name for the plecos which gnaw on wood which basically translates to "canoe eater" because they would latch onto the under side of their canoes and gnaw away.

However, you might find this interesting: Gut microbes of wood-eating Panaqolus and Panaque https://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=324885#p324885
What is most interesting is the posts after tje initia; listing of the study.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

Just saw this thread. What you are describing is the reason my pleco interest is solely within carnivorous species.
Herbivores/xylivores are just far too messy.

 

[Midwater]

 

[andyroo]

Hi Midwater
Did you pre-soak the teak, or just sink it into the tank?
I ask as it's got oils & some defensive/aromatic chemistry, no?
The fish eat it, or concentrate on the hardwood?
How about tannins, or retained as part of the blackwater?

 

[Midwater]

Hi Midwater
Did you pre-soak the teak, or just sink it into the tank?
I ask as it's got oils & some defensive/aromatic chemistry, no?
The fish eat it, or concentrate on the hardwood?
How about tannins, or retained as part of the blackwater?

Teak has to be soaked or weighed down for a few weeks. It has an SG of about 0.8, is fairly soft (for a hard wood) and L number in general seem to love it. Old pieces, especially roots are great for aquariums. It is an oily wood which makes it highly resistant, and good for carving and boat making. But you do not really notice any oil when handling (unlike fresh rubber wood).

The piece of wood you can see in that picture is 'mai deng', which translates directly as 'red wood', even though there are many woods that are called 'red wood' all around the world. Thai red wood is not the same as Malaysian red wood.

Thai red wood is incredibly hard and dense. You cannot hammer nails into it.

This piece was freshly off cut when I got it. It leached tannins for about six months. The fish seemed to like it. It has an SG of about 1.0, so it does not float. This piece did not sink either, it drifted around mid to top water. I had to hold it in place with a bag of stones. Being dense, it absorbed water slowly, and took many months to be a stable fixture. The L numbers seem to settle on it on the flat surface, as they would with glass, but probably do not chew on it.

In my large tank, I have various pieces of aged 'mai deng' and 'mai padoo' (a similar wood), and two pieces of teak. The L numbers invariably stick to the teak, and produce lots of ****.

 

[andyroo]

Bullet-wood (red & blue), Fiddle-wood, Iron-wood etc etc etc; a subtropical island is a similar hell for a chainsaw... or a nail. I tend to use either bamboo or endemic broadleaf (closely related to indian almond) in the aquarium & ponds. Both take a week to weeks to sink, but the latter darkens the water pretty bad. It's very hard, but not super-hard & the snails love it as it soaks & ages, so I'd assume an L# would also. Look for actual indian almond, same as the leaves many of us use; I saw it in a hotel garden in Bangkok years ago, so it should be around.

We're trying fiddle-wood in a client's pond currently as it does (very nearly) sink in freshwater & is light in colour, so touch-wood won't darken the water too-too-much. I'd really like to try coconut (timber) - also oddly hard with a lovely dark colour & pattern, but apparently relatively inert. Snails also happily eat the shell...

 

[Midwater]

I have just planted three indian almond saplings. The row of IA trees down the road from me have been cut down for parking. My saplings will grow fast, so in a couple of years I should get lots of leaves. IA trees are common, or used to be, but I have never heard of anyone using IA wood. Might be good, but there are so many other tropical trees.

 

[andyroo]

Ah! - they can root from cuttings, you could have started with a 2m tree
But yes, they grow pretty fast anyways

My carpenter-buddy-brother has worked in both the native broadleaf & AI; they are quite indistinguishable in the tree, just that broadleaf tends to be up in the hills & is taller & more "structural".
So, though, Alfred (carpenter) tells me that the hardness is about the same, but that broadleaf's grain is more uniform & therefore easier to work for furniture (incl. lily-pots) whereas AI is good for carving. For our needs, either-or... though a carved piece/totem in the aquarium might really be something, and with a medicinal background theme...
... I tell ya, there's a business in this sort of thing