Multiple Oscars in Large Tank

RD.

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HITH and nitrate concentration, and pathogenic bacterial buildup are not simply anecdotal, but backed up with my own testing, actual unbiased trials, and experimental evidence.

Yes, along with numerous peer reviewed papers studies going back decades. Some even singling out some of the bacteria as the direct cause, such as Spironucleus vortens.

"In freshwater fish, Spironucleus sp. has been reported in cichlids, including angelfish, and cyprinids. Spironucleus elegans has been found causing disease in angelfish (Pterophyllum scalare) in Europe (Kulda and Lom, 1964b), while Spironucleus vortens has been also reported from the intestinal lumen of angelfish bred in Florida (Poynton et al., 1995). They can be found in the intestinal tracts of healthy fish and they may invade the body of the host and are capable of causing severe parasitemia under stress conditions (Molnár, 1974).

Hexamita are considered commensal organisms but can be pathogenic under various stressful conditions such as nutritional inadequacies, suboptimal water quality, crowding, poor sanitation and infections from other pathogens or parasites (Specht et al., 1989; Uzmann et al., 1965)

Although Hexamita and Spironucleus cause disease in several economically important fish species in many regions of the world, their pathogenicity is not well known (Woo and Poynton, 1995). It has been believed that the effects and the severity of diplomonad infection are dependent on fish size, tissue site infested, environmental conditions, stocking density, season and stress factors (Allison, 1963; Buchmann and Uldal, 1996; Mo et al., 1990; Uldal and Buchmann, 1996). Fish infected with Hexamita salmonis exhibited clinical signs correlated to their body length and weight (Uldal and Buchmann, 1996). This supports the study of Allison (1963) that large trout, more than 3 or 4 inches long, showed a smaller effect from Hexamita infection than smaller trout.

It is believed that the organisms invade the intestinal epithelium and disseminate to other tissues when the host’s resistance has been suppressed (Woo and Poynton, 1995). It has been suggested that only Spironucleus spp. cause systemic infection because they can invade intestinal mucosa and disseminate to other tissues (Siddall et al., 1992). Evidence of systemic spironucleosis was reported in cyprinids and aquarium fishes (Molnár, 1974), and in salmonids (Mo et al., 1990; Poppe et al., 1992; Sterud et al., 1997). In cyprinids, many Spironucleus sp. were found in the gut where they caused reddening of the mucous membrane, brownish-gray discoloration and necrosis of liver, and haemorrhagic enteritis. In aquarium fishes, the parasite has been reported to cause losses in angelfish stock of up to 50% of the population. The infected fishes showed reddening of the skin, and haemorrhages and ulcerations in the region of the head (Molnár, 1974). The parasites were found in the gut, gallbladder and visceral organs. Spironucleus sp. were also found in large numbers in the blood and the muscle of infected fish."



None of this is breaking news, or at least shouldn't be. Control the pathogenic bacteria, and you control the associated health issues.

And on that note.....

I asked my question about canister filters because as you mentioned, all that does is hide waste. Is does not remove it until you clean it. If you aren't cleaning that thing every day or every other day which nobody does, all that crap is breaking down into ammonia-nitrite-nitrate and adding tons of vocs causing the tank to smell.
I took a different approach to the problem. 10+ yrs in, and I consider my experiment a success story. While I still export the end products via water changes, overall waste reduction has lead to FAR less filter media maintenance, with the added bonus of competitive exclusion keeping pathogenic bacteria to a bare minimum. Again, all well documented in aquaculture circles for decades, yet some folks found my experiment shocking, outrageous, one person even going so far to say that I was going to kill members rays. lol It's a long read, but ...

The Use of Probiotics in Aquaculture | MonsterFishKeepers.com

The following member doesn't appear to post here any longer, but his post sums things up nicely. No waste hiding in those canistors. Well, very little, in what used to be a sludge fest prior to using septic cleaning bacteria.


Thank you RD!

I start dosing my tank with septobac late last year. I believe in the positive probiotic effect and was intrigued with what it might mean for my canisters. I run 2 FX 5's and an Ehiem 2217 on a very heavily overstocked 180 each filter is cleaned every 6 months with a one month gap between each ones cycle.

Well today I cracked open one of the FX 5's for its 6 month cleaning. Typically the foam pads are quite heavy with sludge.

The picture below says it all!!

View attachment 1247221
 

pisanoal

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I took a different approach to the problem.
Very cool. I'll have to read through that thread more. Thanks for posting that.

On my other stocking thread, if you have been back in it, I plan on going the red tail gourami route that you shared so thanks for that. Will be great to have one in the 300 with a medium to large schooling fish to compliment.

I'll definitely look more into the septic tank bacteria dosing. I think that concept can be further enhanced with mechanical filtration removal (looking towards either a rollermat style filter or maybe a diy traveling screen) to remove waste before it breaks down. Couple that with septic tank bacteria, some form of an anoxic/anaerobic zone with siporax for denitrifiers to work better and maybe a refugium, and I think I'll be in pretty good shape. I'll be curious if a drip system will be needed to keep up with nitrate production or if I can keep a healthy tank with relatively infrequent wc's.
 
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duanes

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In your research, do you have any numbers on % of soluble BOD? I'd be curious to see how much removing tss from the water column before it breaks down actually impacts nutrient export.
I did not do BOD tests.
The equipment used, was not readily available, in the drinking water plant where I worked.
 

pisanoal

Gambusia
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I did not do BOD tests.
The equipment used, was not readily available, in the drinking water plant where I worked.
Sure, kind of figured that since its not a common test for drinking water. I'm thinking about doing COD. We don't do BOD in house, but we of course have COD for process control. I suppose I could send a sample to our 3rd party lab to test bod and get a ratio too, but really knowing the soluble to insoluble % would give a good idea of how much work proper mechanical filtration is actually doing.
 
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