Project L236

Niki_up

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MFK Member
Jan 5, 2018
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Nice!

I am one who believes that a lot of the B&W Hypans I keep and starting with zebras, that the fry need to obtain some of their gut bacteria by eating poop from older individuals. So, whenever I start a grow tank for smaller babies I move some of the poop from the breeding tank into the new grow tank. Over time as the fish grow and begin to be sold, I always leave a couple of the older larger fish in the grow tank to serve as poop suppliers as I move out the rest of the fish.

When I began with zebras I notices this growth difference early on and posted about it and discovered others had the same growth difference between grow and breeder tanks. The other thing I spotted with the zebras was that the Alpha male was the 2nd biggest not the biggest. Others have seen that as well. This I have not noticed in other Xingu B&W Hypans. But then I began having to many fish and tanks to be able to figure that out. I t may also hold in those tanks but I just never noticed.

My experience has been that the SW take a bit more time from birth to begin to spawn the the regulars.

Here are some of my offspring ready to go out.

View attachment 1517409
View attachment 1517410

Usually when they start spawning they tend to continue. Make sure you keep up on diet quality. I recently bought a bunch of the Ebo-Aquaristk food from Germany. I spent tpp much moneu but the plecos and corys seem to like it and it is a high quality food. I am using it to replace the kensfish sticks which are not bad but, also not the best quality ingredients. The Ebo stuff is was costly to bring in.
I agree with you about the gut bacteria needed from older fish. In this case I have been busy with work and just needed a tank setup so I ended up not moving any poop in, in fact it didn’t even cross my mind.

i have also noticed with my zebra plecos the oldest biggest male is not breeding. I’m tact I don’t even think it’s my second biggest male breeding, maybe third biggest. My zebras are always breeding and I usually have fry at some stage of growth with them.

I consider myself lucky bc my SW started spewing in less than two years (I want to say less than a year). No signs of another spawn yet though.

I have noticed the zebra plecos will allow their babies to stay in the cave for as long as needed where as the SW didn’t keep the fry in the cave for longer than a week or two after hatching. Where my male zebra has had up to 4 generations in his cave with him.

food wise i was feeding imported expensive food and then noticed a lot of locals buying my plecos were coming back and telling me they were not eating in their tanks. So I ended up switching back to something cheaper and locally sourced.

Your fry look fantastic, how big were they before you sent them to their new homes?
 

TwoTankAmin

Aimara
MFK Member
Oct 2, 2008
365
702
130
New York
I apologize in advance for such a long post . I do not mean to hijack your thread.

The fish in my pics are not fry, they are in the 2.25 - 2.75 inch TL range. I have an interesting way I size them. The big squares below are 1 inch and the smaller ones are 1/8 of an inch.

SW236-6FishBsizea.jpgSW236-6FishBsizeb2a.jpg
The 3 fish I posted are from the 6 fish above. I also believe that 2 or 3 are females.

I do not ship my plecos until they are over 1.5 inch TL. The problem with the B&W ones that are not zebras is that they all look very similar when young. When it comes to 236 and 173, almost all the young tend to look like sw 236. With 173, this fish really morphs. When they are born, and for some time thereafter, you would swear there are 2-5 different species in a single spawn unless you knew better because you know they are all from the same spawn. When younger and smaller they are almost impossible to ID them as 173.

As a result, I tell people that when buying 236, sw 236 or 173, it is best to pay up for larger fish. At 1.5 inches they almost all look like super white 236. But as they get bigger the tend to look like what it is they are. If you want to buy them when smaller, then it is best to buy from a known source. In fact even when larger the source matters for most of these fish.

I took possession of my sw breeder stock, and they were sold to me as RB line, they were close to 2 in. TL for 9 and then just over 1.5 in. for 4. They arrived in late 2019 and went into their own tank to grow. I have two groups of regular 236 and one is for sure the RB kine and the other is almost certainly. Both groups spawned at about 3 in. (+/- .25) TL an about 2.25 - 2.5 years old. However, my sw took longer to get going. So I was surprised you got a spawn so young/s,all. But this appears to a freak thing and they took longer to get into spawning mode it sound like.

Mine have been actively spawning for some time. I have only sold two groups (5 and 6 fish) for 11 fish so far. They were all 2.5 to 3 inches and averaged 2.75 for the group. I have yhe 6 fish group 2.25 - 2.75 ready to go. I have not decided where to list them. I normally sell my biggest fish first and then work down in size even as they are growing. In addition to the 6, I have 18 at 1.75 - 2.25 in. and 26 at 1.0+ to 1.5+ in grow-out, There are more in the breeding tank, mostly recently free swimming to a few left behind when I pulled the ones to grow tanks.

My experience with all of the B&W Hypans I have kept (zebra, 236, sw 236, 173, 173b, 450 and contradens) is that all of them tended to go into spawning mode once they started. This usually lasts for about 10 - 11 months and then they will break for a few (2.25 - 3.5) months and then will resume regular spawning. But this applies to groups. I have never worked with fewer than 6 fish of any pleco species. I would best describe the plecos I have kept as being like randy teenagers. But as they get older they slow down a bit. They do not stop for many years. But they are never as prolific as in the first 5 or 6 years of spawning.

My only experience with healthy fish refusing to eat is in hearing about it from others. Over the years all of the fish I have kept have been and are pigs. They will try to eat almost anything they think might be food. Moreover, most of them will eat food meant for other species if they get the chance. That said, I consider diet to be one of the few things we can control in terms of what we can do to foster breeding.

Fish naturally want to spawn. So, for the most part, we are trying not to do things which might discourage that. Parameters in the proper range. a proper hardscape, adequate space etc. But when it comes to die,t what we choose to feed and when is an active choice. Poor and/or inadequate nutrition can be the reason one's plecos do not spawn.

After almost 2 decades of feeding kensfish.com sinking sticks to my bottom feeders, I switched to Ebo-Aquaristik foods from Germany. I made my own blend from the potential choice of ken's sticks. I do the same with their flakes. I sold a few pounds of my kens sticks at my last club meeting. I only fed them about 15-20% of the time. My main foods are frozen and Repashy. But I am willing to feed the Ebo more than I did the kens.

Most fish will not starve themselves to death. They may reject new foods, but as long as they taste OK to the fish and have nutritional value, most fish will eat them sooner or later. Fish can go a long time without eating and be OK. It helps when a fish can watch other fish eating the food it is refusing.

Anyhow, you should be having a lot of fun here. I started with zebras and was able to leverage my way up to where I am now. But I started keeping fish later in life and I am now just too old to keep up with it all. I am just over the halfway point of a pre-planned exit from the hobby. I recently turned 75 and discovered I am an old man
 

Niki_up

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MFK Member
Jan 5, 2018
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I love your measuring tool! Not going to lie I might steal this idea!



Thankfully I won’t have to worry about identifying my young as I only keep L236sw and l397 in the breeding tank. Though when I moved my l333 and L236 fry into the same tank I couldn’t tell them apart until they were a little larger as they were all grey molted pattens when weeks old.



I got really lucky with mine as they pretty much started breed exactly one year after purchasing them. I didn’t even know I had a female.



I am currently keeping 4 types of fry in the same tank and there will be older fry mixed in with any and all new fry are added so I won’t have to worry about the poop situation now that my tank is up and running.



I was expecting to see another batch of fry by now but have yet to see a batch. The male has been switching caves and has a couple of breeding scratches on his body currently.



As for the food situation I know my fry were eating when they left me, but dr basslers cannot be purchased locally and many people complained and said they starved. I was even sending fry home with my food brand. I was replacing zebras for a little bit but that’s not financially stable so I switched to nls brand. Something locally sourced . Not a bad food but not what I wanted to feed either. But it works for now.



I’m pretty sure most loses of my fry once they left was temperature related and improper housing.



Currently locally people are selling l236 SW for $400 at 1.25 inches. This is exceptionally higher than when I bought my fish. Mine were purchased at 2.5-3 inches for $350 each



I appreciate any and all info you’d like to share with me!!



Sometimes I feel like I started plecos later in life and wish I had started earlier haha so I can relate in the at aspect. Though I hope I have many more years with them.
I’m currently looking for one more hard to find group of plecos which are fairly cheap but not found often. l135’s! They will be my last group that I want to breed. And then there’s two plecos I want to own but not breed.
 

TwoTankAmin

Aimara
MFK Member
Oct 2, 2008
365
702
130
New York
I see some yellow. That is how they created the super yellow line. I have gotten yellow offspring from my 173 as well as my regular 236. I do not line breed for generations. With 173 I would have needed to start over a dozen or more years ago to even try.
 

Niki_up

Blue Tier VIP
MFK Member
Jan 5, 2018
2,344
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May I ask where you got l236 SW parents in Canada ?
I got them from:


i paid just shy of $1200 for 3 which included shipping.
 

Phiromi

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Apr 16, 2007
3
13
33
La Palma
I apologize in advance for such a long post . I do not mean to hijack your thread.

The fish in my pics are not fry, they are in the 2.25 - 2.75 inch TL range. I have an interesting way I size them. The big squares below are 1 inch and the smaller ones are 1/8 of an inch.

View attachment 1517516View attachment 1517517
The 3 fish I posted are from the 6 fish above. I also believe that 2 or 3 are females.

I do not ship my plecos until they are over 1.5 inch TL. The problem with the B&W ones that are not zebras is that they all look very similar when young. When it comes to 236 and 173, almost all the young tend to look like sw 236. With 173, this fish really morphs. When they are born, and for some time thereafter, you would swear there are 2-5 different species in a single spawn unless you knew better because you know they are all from the same spawn. When younger and smaller they are almost impossible to ID them as 173.

As a result, I tell people that when buying 236, sw 236 or 173, it is best to pay up for larger fish. At 1.5 inches they almost all look like super white 236. But as they get bigger the tend to look like what it is they are. If you want to buy them when smaller, then it is best to buy from a known source. In fact even when larger the source matters for most of these fish.

I took possession of my sw breeder stock, and they were sold to me as RB line, they were close to 2 in. TL for 9 and then just over 1.5 in. for 4. They arrived in late 2019 and went into their own tank to grow. I have two groups of regular 236 and one is for sure the RB kine and the other is almost certainly. Both groups spawned at about 3 in. (+/- .25) TL an about 2.25 - 2.5 years old. However, my sw took longer to get going. So I was surprised you got a spawn so young/s,all. But this appears to a freak thing and they took longer to get into spawning mode it sound like.

Mine have been actively spawning for some time. I have only sold two groups (5 and 6 fish) for 11 fish so far. They were all 2.5 to 3 inches and averaged 2.75 for the group. I have yhe 6 fish group 2.25 - 2.75 ready to go. I have not decided where to list them. I normally sell my biggest fish first and then work down in size even as they are growing. In addition to the 6, I have 18 at 1.75 - 2.25 in. and 26 at 1.0+ to 1.5+ in grow-out, There are more in the breeding tank, mostly recently free swimming to a few left behind when I pulled the ones to grow tanks.

My experience with all of the B&W Hypans I have kept (zebra, 236, sw 236, 173, 173b, 450 and contradens) is that all of them tended to go into spawning mode once they started. This usually lasts for about 10 - 11 months and then they will break for a few (2.25 - 3.5) months and then will resume regular spawning. But this applies to groups. I have never worked with fewer than 6 fish of any pleco species. I would best describe the plecos I have kept as being like randy teenagers. But as they get older they slow down a bit. They do not stop for many years. But they are never as prolific as in the first 5 or 6 years of spawning.

My only experience with healthy fish refusing to eat is in hearing about it from others. Over the years all of the fish I have kept have been and are pigs. They will try to eat almost anything they think might be food. Moreover, most of them will eat food meant for other species if they get the chance. That said, I consider diet to be one of the few things we can control in terms of what we can do to foster breeding.

Fish naturally want to spawn. So, for the most part, we are trying not to do things which might discourage that. Parameters in the proper range. a proper hardscape, adequate space etc. But when it comes to die,t what we choose to feed and when is an active choice. Poor and/or inadequate nutrition can be the reason one's plecos do not spawn.

After almost 2 decades of feeding kensfish.com sinking sticks to my bottom feeders, I switched to Ebo-Aquaristik foods from Germany. I made my own blend from the potential choice of ken's sticks. I do the same with their flakes. I sold a few pounds of my kens sticks at my last club meeting. I only fed them about 15-20% of the time. My main foods are frozen and Repashy. But I am willing to feed the Ebo more than I did the kens.

Most fish will not starve themselves to death. They may reject new foods, but as long as they taste OK to the fish and have nutritional value, most fish will eat them sooner or later. Fish can go a long time without eating and be OK. It helps when a fish can watch other fish eating the food it is refusing.

Anyhow, you should be having a lot of fun here. I started with zebras and was able to leverage my way up to where I am now. But I started keeping fish later in life and I am now just too old to keep up with it all. I am just over the halfway point of a pre-planned exit from the hobby. I recently turned 75 and discovered I am an old man
Hey guys, I was wondering if you can direct me to a good source to purchase L236. I live in California and I am open to have them shipped here.
 

fishbrosgrows

Feeder Fish
Nov 4, 2023
2
0
1
26
I got them from:


i paid just shy of $1200 for 3 which included shipping.
That's awesome that you got a pair from just 3. Have you been able to sell the offspring locally?

I've been debating if I should just get reg l236 and bread those or pull the trigger on some SW.
 
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