tiger moray aggressiob

[Trouser Bark]

You are conflating two separate issues.

- You are correct that it is reasonable to hand feed fish that are likely to otherwise starve in your care.

- You are not correct with regard to hand feeding multiple eels in the same tank and the manner in which you're doing it.

- You are also posting a statement to other future viewers of this site from which they would assume you may know what you're talking about.

When you say:

wrapping around isn’t something that should raise a concern beyond normal behavior

...you are making a statement rather than asking a question. That statement is incorrect and future readers of this site should not assume that it's a good idea to let their moray wrap around their hand during feeding time, particularly if they had more than one. You characterize what you saw as aggressive behavior in your title and when one fish bites another, that qualifies.

You should first be asking yourself what it is about the situation that should not be repeated rather than encouraging others to believe that what you've done is normal and acceptable behavior. It clearly is not... which is why you're here.

 

[shern]

You are conflating two separate issues.

- You are correct that it is reasonable to hand feed fish that are likely to otherwise starve in your care.

- You are not correct with regard to hand feeding multiple eels in the same tank and the manner in which you're doing it.

- You are also posting a statement to other future viewers of this site from which they would assume you may know what you're talking about.

When you say:



...you are making a statement rather than asking a question. That statement is incorrect and future readers of this site should not assume that it's a good idea to let their moray wrap around their hand during feeding time, particularly if they had more than one. You characterize what you saw as aggressive behavior in your title and when one fish bites another, that qualifies.

You should first be asking yourself what it is about the situation that should not be repeated rather than encouraging others to believe that what you've done is normal and acceptable behavior. It clearly is not... which is why you're here.

apologizes for the mistake, I meant to say in my own tank due to my hand feeding, my eels are doing fine for now but I didn't mean to say that hand wrapping was aggressive unless I misunderstood your point, I noticed the biting from the eel and as of now, it was a one-time occurrence. i was questioning whether it was aggression towards the same species that was known amongst mfk and not on Google. I was arguing for my fish and apologizes if it was a subjective manner in my own tank. I asked for knowledge on the "aggression" and if anyone knew why it happened. I wasn't trying to encourage that it was a normalized behavior for all eels, but I argued in my tank that it shouldn't raise concern due to my hand feeding.

 

[Trouser Bark]

now is it normal behavior for a fish to chill around your hand? that question remains unknown...

It may remain unknown to you. Ask yourself, what is the likelihood that you'll find multiple long term experienced fish keepers that have encouraged and conditioned adult gymnothorax polyuranodons to expect that feeding and human contact are normal? That answer will likely be very close to zero.

The likelihood that the same scenario w/ multiple eels in the same tank is lower yet.

If there were one other aspect that merits questioning it would be your belief that what you're doing is necessary. Do you believe it's necessary because the fish is incapable of feeding itself naturally or do you believe it's necessary because you have placed it in an unfortunate mix of tank mates that are creating an unhealthy environment for your eels?

If your gymnothorax polyuranodons are not eating like this you should ask yourself what specifically then problem is. Any ideas?

 

[shern]

It may remain unknown to you. Ask yourself, what is the likelihood that you'll find multiple long term experienced fish keepers that have encouraged and conditioned adult gymnothorax polyuranodons to expect that feeding and human contact are normal? That answer will likely be very close to zero.

The likelihood that the same scenario w/ multiple eels in the same tank is lower yet.

If there were one other aspect that merits questioning it would be your belief that what you're doing is necessary. Do you believe it's necessary because the fish is incapable of feeding itself naturally or do you believe it's necessary because you have placed it in an unfortunate mix of tank mates that are creating an unhealthy environment for your eels?

If your gymnothorax polyuranodons are not eating like this you should ask yourself what specifically then problem is. Any ideas?

I would like to mention that before this when I had first gotten the eels they would never come out to eat, again which is the reason why the first passed, he would never leave the multiple hiding holes I provided and as a result starved to death, unfortunately not every single gymnothorax polyuranodon shares the same traits and or will act the same so when I noticed my new ones behaving the same I wasn't going to let it die like the previous, letting it starve for months on end would be a lapse in any experienced fish keepers judgment given the scenario. and don't worry, I've watched just about every T. moray video on one ranging from exotic aquatics to scoobz and pets, I've done much research for my fish, it, however, is not in my power to completely control my fish's actions and behavior. The behavior of my eels is definitely not "natural" to the wider arrangement of ones kept by others but I'm not starving my fish until they decide to scavenge on their own because fish will just starve and choose not to come out. I feel like setting a standard for all eels shouldn't be hard enforced as it was the quota I followed for my last before it died. I let it starve and research told me to attempt to feed it every couple of days or starve it for a period of time. but mine just died and I'm not letting it happen to my news, my hand feeding proved helpful and my eels have been thriving since.

 

[Trouser Bark]

Listen to the voice of experience in the above video at 1:48 and ask yourself 'if he has that issue w/ two eels, what might it be like w/ three'?

Was the one you had that died the smaller of the three? Could it be that the feeding aggression experienced by the keeper in the vid is not unrelated to what you saw and that the third eel died predictably? If this keeper in our example says that aggressive bullying during feeding is "not too bad" w/ two eels should you expect that w/ three it won't be better? Natural selection suggests that one of the three will likely receive all of the bullying.

There may be multiple solutions to the issue you've experienced but the best one will not be based on assumptions of what must be ok if it's the fish's choice to do so. For example, if the eel that wrapped around your hand is the smaller of the two remaining, how should you interpret its behavior during feeding events and what should you assume is normal for the other eel?

If the behavior continues and these fish are truly as poor sighted as they seem, should you expect to eventually be nailed by an eel that's a meter long or more?

More Socratic method and fewer attempts to justify misunderstood behavior will be better than any alternative.

Good luck.

 

[shern]

Listen to the voice of experience in the above video at 1:48 and ask yourself 'if he has that issue w/ two eels, what might it be like w/ three'?

Was the one you had that died the smaller of the three? Could it be that the feeding aggression experienced by the keeper in the vid is not unrelated to what you saw and that the third eel died predictably? If this keeper in our example says that aggressive bullying during feeding is "not too bad" w/ two eels should you expect that w/ three it won't be better? Natural selection suggests that one of the three will likely receive all of the bullying.

There may be multiple solutions to the issue you've experienced but the best one will not be based on assumptions of what must be ok if it's the fish's choice to do so. For example, if the eel that wrapped around your hand is the smaller of the two remaining, how should you interpret its behavior during feeding events and what should you assume is normal for the other eel?

If the behavior continues and these fish are truly as poor sighted as they seem, should you expect to eventually be nailed by an eel that's a meter long or more?

More Socratic method and fewer attempts to justify misunderstood behavior will be better than any alternative.

Good luck.

apologizes if it wasn’t known or misunderstood but i had the singular small alone and once it died i got the two so it wasn’t fighting to feed amongst one another that let to the starvation of the small, furthermore i had finished feeding the eels by the time i start feeding my other fish and as far as i know, they weren’t hungry. also good point that there will be a bully eel in the tank but i would like to point out that between the only two eels that they had never had an issue prior, now this doesn’t mean that it can’t happen but for the first it was unnatural especially a quick bite. i’m wondering whether it was a stress issue but i checked all my params that day and knew that they were fed. I see that mm on insta has some biggies and they go to the top to feed which is great and is what i’m hopefully trying to get them to learn but currently im still hand feeding until they feel comfortable to exit themselves and scavenge. thanks for the advice

 

[Trouser Bark]

Keep wondering and you'll keep learning.

If you're looking for a suggestion it would be to follow the example the youtube guy set by having them in a tank of their own... at least until they're mature enough that feeding time isn't as problematic. At that point they are what they'll be and concerns over feeding, aggression and the need to touch them or the reason for the likely more timid of the two seeking refuge from the other by wrapping around your hand, etc; those concerns and more will become better understood and in time more easily managed.

You'll get it.

 

[shern]

Keep wondering and you'll keep learning.

If you're looking for a suggestion it would be to follow the example the youtube guy set by having them in a tank of their own... at least until they're mature enough that feeding time isn't as problematic. At that point they are what they'll be and concerns over feeding, aggression and the need to touch them or the reason for the likely more timid of the two seeking refuge from the other by wrapping around your hand, etc; those concerns and more will become better understood and in time more easily managed.

You'll get it.

realistically i move the others into the 180g and keep the two in the tank alone with the flagtail but i’ll see what i can do. thanks though

 

[Trouser Bark]

realistically i move the others into the 180g and keep the two in the tank alone with the flagtail but i’ll see what i can do. thanks though

You are welcome. Each time you post we see another layer of the onion. I believe I'll step out of this thread for a bit but on my way out the door I'll suggest that the flag tail is not an ideal tank mate for two rare, expensive and (in your experience so far) temperamental eels. I'm guessing you've paid at least $200 apiece for the eels and of that $600 have already lost at least $200.

The prochilotus is a comparatively inexpensive fish and the species has a track record of annoying tank mates. It's really fast and in my view less than an ideal tankmate for any delicate juvenile fish. If you can't properly segragate your fish consider taking the flag back to the LFS you got it from and just donating it. Chalk it up to an error and be glad there's someone that's not too far away that will be able to help when a mistake has been made.

They'll appreciate the donation, you'll be able to get your tanks lined up to better accommodate your more special fish and though you may not receive anything of value in return from the LFS you'll separate yourself in their eyes from the great unwashed hoard of poor planners and fish killers that often walk through their door.

Sometimes the best solution is to turn back a page or two and to be happy that you can.