This is about Martinboys Piebald Zonatus

[RD.]

While I suppose that at least for now these piebalds will remain shrouded in mystery, after conversing with a non-biased authority on the subject of the bans in place in Mexico, it appears that permits can indeed be obtained for importation of fish into the USA as long as the exporter is a registered company, and the species of fish at the time of export is not on a protection list.

I don't expect anyone to produce any import statements or permits, or name their exporter/s, that's obviously not going to happen, but at least we can remove any doubt that wild fish can under the proper conditions be exported out of the country in question. Different permits, different variables involved, but it sounds like it's doable. I suspect that if anyone knew how to go about getting permits in that part of the world it would be Don Conkel.

 

[MartinBoy]

great info! Thanks for sharing

 

[Aquamojo]

While I suppose that at least for now these piebalds will remain shrouded in mystery, after conversing with a non-biased authority on the subject of the bans in place in Mexico, it appears that permits can indeed be obtained for importation of fish into the USA as long as the exporter is a registered company, and the species of fish at the time of export is not on a protection list.

I don't expect anyone to produce any import statements or permits, or name their exporter/s, that's obviously not going to happen, but at least we can remove any doubt that wild fish can under the proper conditions be exported out of the country in question. Different permits, different variables involved, but it sounds like it's doable. I suspect that if anyone knew how to go about getting permits in that part of the world it would be Don Conkel.

I've done it.

 

[RD.]

Right, but in this case it's on a larger commercial scale, which from my understanding permit wise is apparently a different situation than a hobbyist collecting a few fish.

 

[dogofwar]

Exactly - I'm suspicious of both the volume of "wild" fish...and that they're being collected from so many far flung locations. Oh, and there aren't (well since Don's book in the '90s) pictures / accounts of these far flung collecting trips...not only to Mexico, but to Belize, Guatemala, etc... documented in aquarium literature or websites.

Imagine the excitement among hobbyists - to say nothing of demonstrating to all who have doubts - if there was some transparency around this.

And what about some biotype pics, water parameter meausurements and other info on the states of these places?

If what Conkel claims to be doing is actually being done, it deserves to be seen. I'd pay (like I pay for CRC). But alas...

Matt

Right, but in this case it's on a larger commercial scale, which from my understanding permit wise is apparently a different situation than a hobbyist collecting a few fish.

 

[aclockworkorange]

Don is coming out with a new book this year.

 

[dogofwar]

Allegedly...

Matt

Don is coming out with a new book this year.

 

[freebyrd]

i try to stay away from wild caught fish personally, they are mostly shy and dont seem to fare well adjusting to captivity in my experience. i prefer F1-F2 fish. i too have 3 paratheraps/vieja from Gage and they seem pure, but not wild. he told me they were F1, but i could care less, i did get all males tho so nothing would hybridize.

btw your piebalds or whatever they are look cool, i LOVE my piebald cf. fenestratus easily one of my favorite fish, my wife however thinks its ugly and looks like its 'missing skin' lol

 

[aclockworkorange]

Allegedly...

Matt

Um, ok?

Might want to get out of the fish room for a bit Matt. We're all just people keeping fish in glass boxes at the end of the day.

 

[DISCIPLE]

Feedback Score 3 (100%) No personal agenda again Conkel on my part - I've just been around long enough to know that a lot of what he says doesn't check out under scrutiny....that there have been unintentional hybridization issues at his farm in the past (especially among Vieja and Paratheraps)...and that (because of this) I try my best to steer clear of his stock. He spoke at my local club meeting last year and my perspective has not changed...

The best way to clear this up is transparency around where and how Conkel / Gage source their "wild" stock.

- Who is (or are) their sources of wild (not "wild") fish from Mexico? Do they also import pond-raised fish (from Central America)?

- Are there any RECENT pictures of people collecting from the wild (not recycled '90s-era photos or the same photos that are on his website)?

- Can they produce any import statements, permits or other documentation of wild import from Mexico?

- Have their suppliers ever seen piebald or other unusually-colored zonatum in the wild? It would seem that with regular collecting activity going on that Conkel and his suppliers would have a better idea than just about anyone of the natural variability of this species...

- Macracanthus and Trimacs are also found in the Rio Tehuantepec (Mexico). Given that zonatum is (allegedly) being collected from the wild, are the suppliers also collecting these species at the same time? Relative abundance of each? Conditions in the river? What the habitat looks like? Other fish found with the cichlids?

I could go on....and I'll probably hear the same stories of secret collection locations (so that "the others" won't travel to Mexico and take all of the "special" zonatum)...

In closing, I'd be a lot less skeptical of Conkel-sourced stock in general...and this guy's fish in particular...if all of what I've described above wasn't so shrouded in mystery (or coated in BS).

Providing this kind of information could both go a long way in demonstrating the authenticity of the stock they're selling but also provide valuable information and insight for hobbyists and scientists...

Matt

WHY DIDNT YOU ASK HIM WHEN HE WAS HERE FOR THE CCA MEETING? IT WOULD HAVE BEEN INTERESTING TO GET THOSE QUESTIONS YOU AND OTHERS HAVE ADDRESSED DIRECTLY FROM THE SOURCE. CURIOSITY AND QUESTIONS ANSWERED.