Are my Angels fighting or mating?

[Cueball703]

I have seen these two in a Lip-Lock on 2 different occasions. I have also seen them pick at each other every once in a while (as well as an occasional peck after some of my other fish). Can you tell from these pictures if they are fighting or mating? I know that Angel Fish are egg layers, so if they are mating, I won't see any babies... I've got 5 plecos and 8 Zebra Botias in my tank.

 

[kissofcrimson]

It's possible they could be pairing up but also possible they're just fighting. I would watch to see if they choose any nesting sites (cleaning off places to lay eggs) and defend those areas. It took my angels quite a while before they decided to lay eggs but once they did, it was often.


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[Mythic Figment]

I have seen these two in a Lip-Lock on 2 different occasions. I have also seen them pick at each other every once in a while (as well as an occasional peck after some of my other fish). Can you tell from these pictures if they are fighting or mating? I know that Angel Fish are egg layers, so if they are mating, I won't see any babies... I've got 5 plecos and 8 Zebra Botias in my tank.

The lip locking is normal for mating behavior, but not so much the pecking. Lip locking is also a way for many cichlids to determine who is the alpha. Often angels will flare up to each other like they are saying, "Look how pretty I am! You should mate with me!" After they have paired up, they will often spend a lot of their time swimming close to each other.

To me, it sounds like their social hierarchy is creating aggression. Angels do best in groups of four or more because their social hierarchy causes the "low man on the totem pole" to get picked on a lot. Having at least four angels helps to spread the aggression around so that no one fish gets picked on too much. Too much picking often results in a drop in the immune system, opening the fish up to disease. Angels are experts at hiding disease. One day they are swimming along like nothing is wrong and three hours later they drop dead.

Also, if they are mating, the eggs are not going to make it. Plecos and loaches are egg hunters in the home aquarium and they will devour a clutch of eggs within hours of them being laid.


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[Cueball703]

...To me, it sounds like their social hierarchy is creating aggression. Angels do best in groups of four or more because their social hierarchy causes the "low man on the totem pole" to get picked on a lot...

Also, if they are mating, the eggs are not going to make it. Plecos and loaches are egg hunters in the home aquarium and they will devour a clutch of eggs within hours of them being laid.

I originally had 3 Angel Fish. The third (and largest of the 3) was a Gold Angel. I had to re-home that one due to massive aggression on its part. It had picked on 2 of my prior plecos (A Sunshine and a King Tiger (both less than 2 inches)) to the point that they got stressed out and died. It also was chasing after my other fish quite frequently. I don't want to add any more Angels to my tank (since they have started showing some aggressions towards the other fish). I might even have to consider re-homing these 2.

As for the fact that they might be mating, I already know the eggs won't make it. That's why I mentioned my Bottom Feeders.

 

[Mythic Figment]

I originally had 3 Angel Fish. The third (and largest of the 3) was a Gold Angel. I had to re-home that one due to massive aggression on its part. It had picked on 2 of my prior plecos (A Sunshine and a King Tiger (both less than 2 inches)) to the point that they got stressed out and died. It also was chasing after my other fish quite frequently. I don't want to add any more Angels to my tank (since they have started showing some aggressions towards the other fish). I might even have to consider re-homing these 2.

As for the fact that they might be mating, I already know the eggs won't make it. That's why I mentioned my Bottom Feeders.

Sounds like you know what you are getting into. Just keep an eye on aggression and do what you have to. Good luck!


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[Aquanero]

Since Angelfish are at best diffacult to sex by looking at them you often have to wait untill they breed to tell who is who. However having said that the larger of the two looks like a male judging from it's head but that's not 100% accurate. They could be two males testing for dominance or a pair forming. Due to the size differance my first inclination would be a pair (again not 100% accurate). Have you seen any shimmying or shaking while they swim around each other? One interesting behavior to look for if they start cleanning a site and lay eggs, the male will extend his fins turn at about a 45 degree angle from vertical and dive bomb any fish that gets too close to the nesting site. Pretty cool to watch. It is also not uncommon for it to take them few tries before they get the breeding thing right. Keep us posted.

 

[Cueball703]

Have you seen any shimmying or shaking while they swim around each other? One interesting behavior to look for if they start cleanning a site and lay eggs,...

I haven't notice any different or strange patterns when they swim around. Sometimes they will swim in separate areas of each other. Sometimes they will swim side by side, or one following the other, and then all of a sudden, the larger one will chase after the smaller one and will (what appears to be) attack it. This will go on once or twice, and then it stops, and they just go about their usual swimming around.

I haven't seen either Angel do (what would appear to be) any digging or clearing out of an area for possible egg laying.

 

[Aquanero]

Angelfish are not substrate spawners. Angelfish will spawn on vertical surfaces, intake filter tubes, vertical decorations like the one in your picture large leaves (real or artafical) etc. They will pick at the area to remove any debris, algea etc to make a surface sutable for attaching the eggs. The feamle will then swim vertically alonge the surface depostiong eggs while the male swims behind her fertalizing them. They will pick off any white unfertaized eggs, young pairs often eat all the eggs the first few trys until they get it right. Unfortunatly some pairs never get it right, this is usually more prevalent in domestic strains, while some are excelent parents right out of the shoot. GL

 

[Cueball703]

Update on my 2 Angels... About 4 weeks ago, I added 4 Black Ghosts to my tank. The Angel's aggressions seemed to have calmed down a bit. As for their getting into a lip-lock, I noticed that they seem to do this when I but the full light on in my tank... My lighting has 2 switches. One for a bluish tinted light, and one for a regular white light. I can use either or both together. When I use just the white light, that's when they start to go at each other.