SeaChem Safe
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Pops - I'm an old guy with failing eyes as well, you can increase the font size on your computer via your puters settings. 
I just explained the ammonia part - for millions of hobbyists it has nothing to do with having a cycled tank. CHLORAMINE contains FREE AMMONIA.
The following comment on the Seachem site sums things up. I understand why the labels have been changed, I simply don't agree with the new numbers being used on the new labels. It doesn't matter how anyone spins it, the numbers don't lie. The old instructions made perfect sense, for anyone that could add 1+1 and divide by 2. Nothing in the formula has changed, and nothing in the actual data being used in the past has changed. My point is that in Seachems attempt to dumb things down for the average consumer, IMO they have missed the mark in regards to the "average" consumers residual disinfectant level typically found in ones tap water.
So my advice is the same as it has always been, contact your local water supplier, or look up your local water quality report, and find out what disinfectant they use, and at what levels - then use the previous info that Seachem has been supplying on the labels for years.
From 2012
To remove…
Chlorine: use 5 g (1 tsp.*) to each 1625 L (450 gallons*) of tap water (removes 4 ppm).
Chloramine: use 5 g (1 tsp.*) to each 1250 L (300 gallons*) of tap water (removes 4 ppm).
Ammonia: use 5 g (1 tsp.*) to each 400 L (100 gallons*) of tap water (removes 4 ppm). Do not overdose!
If you have 2ppm chloramine, like I do, then simply divide by two. So 1/2 teaspoon of Safe will treat 300 gallons. 1/4 teaspoon will treat 150 gallons, etc-etc.
IMO Seachem completely missed the mark on this one.
I just explained the ammonia part - for millions of hobbyists it has nothing to do with having a cycled tank. CHLORAMINE contains FREE AMMONIA.
The following comment on the Seachem site sums things up. I understand why the labels have been changed, I simply don't agree with the new numbers being used on the new labels. It doesn't matter how anyone spins it, the numbers don't lie. The old instructions made perfect sense, for anyone that could add 1+1 and divide by 2. Nothing in the formula has changed, and nothing in the actual data being used in the past has changed. My point is that in Seachems attempt to dumb things down for the average consumer, IMO they have missed the mark in regards to the "average" consumers residual disinfectant level typically found in ones tap water.
So my advice is the same as it has always been, contact your local water supplier, or look up your local water quality report, and find out what disinfectant they use, and at what levels - then use the previous info that Seachem has been supplying on the labels for years.
From 2012
To remove…
Chlorine: use 5 g (1 tsp.*) to each 1625 L (450 gallons*) of tap water (removes 4 ppm).
Chloramine: use 5 g (1 tsp.*) to each 1250 L (300 gallons*) of tap water (removes 4 ppm).
Ammonia: use 5 g (1 tsp.*) to each 400 L (100 gallons*) of tap water (removes 4 ppm). Do not overdose!
If you have 2ppm chloramine, like I do, then simply divide by two. So 1/2 teaspoon of Safe will treat 300 gallons. 1/4 teaspoon will treat 150 gallons, etc-etc.
IMO Seachem completely missed the mark on this one.
Hello; Please check how I follow your post.Pops - I'm an old guy with failing eyes as well, you can increase the font size on your computer via your puters settings.
I just explained the ammonia part - for millions of hobbyists it has nothing to do with having a cycled tank. CHLORAMINE contains FREE AMMONIA.
The following comment on the Seachem site sums things up. I understand why the labels have been changed, I simply don't agree with the new numbers being used on the new labels. It doesn't matter how anyone spins it, the numbers don't lie. The old instructions made perfect sense, for anyone that could add 1+1 and divide by 2. Nothing in the formula has changed, and nothing in the actual data being used in the past has changed. My point is that in Seachems attempt to dumb things down for the average consumer, IMO they have missed the mark in regards to the "average" consumers residual disinfectant level typically found in ones tap water.
So my advice is the same as it has always been, contact your local water supplier, or look up your local water quality report, and find out what disinfectant they use, and at what levels - then use the previous info that Seachem has been supplying on the labels for years.
From 2012
To remove…
Chlorine: use 5 g (1 tsp.*) to each 1625 L (450 gallons*) of tap water (removes 4 ppm).
Chloramine: use 5 g (1 tsp.*) to each 1250 L (300 gallons*) of tap water (removes 4 ppm).
Ammonia: use 5 g (1 tsp.*) to each 400 L (100 gallons*) of tap water (removes 4 ppm). Do not overdose!
If you have 2ppm chloramine, like I do, then simply divide by two. So 1/2 teaspoon of Safe will treat 300 gallons. 1/4 teaspoon will treat 150 gallons, etc-etc.
IMO Seachem completely missed the mark on this one.
Is this correct? Method one --- Say someone has chlorine at 4ppm plus chloramine at 4ppm plus also ammonia at 4 ppm - then the total dose is 1 tsp for the most significant number of gallons. This being 100 gallons for the ammonia in my example. Meaning the doses are not additive for each treated agent? This is fairly simple.
Or is this correct? Method two --- Someone has chlorine at 4ppm plus chloramine at 4ppm plus also ammonia at 4 ppm - then the total dose is 3 tsp for some factor of gallons. Meaning the doses are additive for each treated agent? This is more complex as the gallon numbers vary for treatment concentrations.
I ordered some SAFE and will pick it up next time I am in Knoxville TN
I don't work for Seachem, so make of this what you will.
Seachem is a reducing agent, designed to reduce chlorine to chloride, rendering it safe to fish. In the case of chloramine, it first splits the chlorine/ammonia bond, converts the chlorine portion to chloride, and then converts the ammonia to a fish safe form. Seachem reps have explained this as the free ammonia being converted into the Schiff base of an aldehyde (R2C=NH), which is non-toxic.
To answer your question, there should never be 4 ppm of both chlorine, and chloramine at the same time. It would be one, or the other, depending on the disinfectant being used in ones local tap water. If one has an ammonia spike, in an emergency they can also use Safe to neutralize the toxicity of the NH3 - just follow directions already stated in my previous post.
I'm not going to address what ifs or maybes, my comments in this discussion are only addressing the average consumer that is looking to perform a water change and needs the dosage rate for their local water.
Nothing in the chemical make up of Seachem Safe or Prime has ever changed.
Seachem is a reducing agent, designed to reduce chlorine to chloride, rendering it safe to fish. In the case of chloramine, it first splits the chlorine/ammonia bond, converts the chlorine portion to chloride, and then converts the ammonia to a fish safe form. Seachem reps have explained this as the free ammonia being converted into the Schiff base of an aldehyde (R2C=NH), which is non-toxic.
To answer your question, there should never be 4 ppm of both chlorine, and chloramine at the same time. It would be one, or the other, depending on the disinfectant being used in ones local tap water. If one has an ammonia spike, in an emergency they can also use Safe to neutralize the toxicity of the NH3 - just follow directions already stated in my previous post.
I'm not going to address what ifs or maybes, my comments in this discussion are only addressing the average consumer that is looking to perform a water change and needs the dosage rate for their local water.
Nothing in the chemical make up of Seachem Safe or Prime has ever changed.
hello; Thanks for the response. I understand you are not associated with the company. I also take responsibility for comming to my own understanding and will not come back to you or any other forum member for a posting. Sorry for posting a complicated hypothetical.
One of the blessings of life is to be able to read with understanding. I have a copy of the most recent water quality data for my tap water. Only chlorine is used at an average of 1.94 ppm with a range of from 1.2 to 3.1ppm. I plan to use the 3.1 ppm figure in my calculations.
You could just age and airate your water to make it safe for fish if you only have to worry about chlorine. I wish I was so lucky I got to deal with chloromine and am seriously considering digging a well in a couple years. Then I can do continuous water changes on my tanks and only have to vacation once a month. Unfortunately I use prime thus spending more than I would on sage but I got small tanks to care for as well and I don't smoke weed no more and thus no longer have good scales
Hello; I have been ageing my tank water for some decades. Never had a problem until I recently needed to disinfect a tank. I used clorox and had some residue. As I had never used clorox, I only put some snails and a few plants in the tank, no fish. I found some liquid water conditioner at a local Wal-Mart that de-toxed my water. The tank is now running fine.
It is my understanding from reading posts on this forum and some other searches that the liquid water conditioners have a finite effective shelf life. As I do not have a regular need for water conditioners and that the powdered form of SAFE is supposed to last a long time if properly sealed, I have ordered some to have on hand. This way I can de-tox right away if I need to disinfect a tank and also have the option to do a water change without having to age the water.
I agree my tap water is lucky for me. The best water I ever had was about fifteen years on a good well. Thanks for the reply.
