Eight sun catfish, ~9"-11", 5-8 year old, in 4500 gal

[thebiggerthebetter]

my biggest question is their vision......during the day. They have those large eyes, but is that just so they can see better at night and the pupils can absorb more light? They really don't seem to hunt by sight, but at the same time they sure do spook easily. Anyone else ever wonder about this?

I think it's a fair question considering most - or at least ALOT of catfish have tiny eyes and very poor vision.....and at that same time while some seem to be "Swimming Noses" with a sense of smell and taste that rivals a Shark I noticed some cats will go right past food and ignore it, or don't realize it's food - even with a food item that is part of their captive diet.

Good questions IMHO. Catfish also feel even the slightest vibrations in the ground and water of anybody or anything approaching them.

When cats lose both eyes, most of them, like Pims, even free-swimmers like Pangasiidae, still fend for themselves fine.

When a catfish goes by food and remains unattracted, I think it is either not hungry or its mouth is full at the moment or the wildly swirling tastes in the tank water have it confused where the food actually is.

Cats and fish in general sense electricity in the water too with their lateral line and sensing areas. Including electromagnetic field. This is supposedly in part how fish know where to go, migrate to - by sensing the Earth's electromagnetic field.

This may help too:

 

[Frank Castle]

Good questions IMHO. Catfish also feel even the slightest vibrations in the ground and water of anybody or anything approaching them.

When cats lose both eyes, most of them, like Pims, even free-swimmers like Pangasiidae, still fend for themselves fine.

When a catfish goes by food and remains unattracted, I think it is either not hungry or its mouth is full at the moment or the wildly swirling tastes in the tank water have it confused where the food actually is.

Cats and fish in general sense electricity in the water too with their lateral line and sensing areas. Including electromagnetic field. This is supposedly in part how fish know where to go, migrate to - by sensing the Earth's electromagnetic field.

This may help too:

lol whatever - I said "Swimming Noses", he said "the entire catfish might as well just be one big tongue" haha close enough

I guess now we have to figure out why some cats are so active and others just sit there and do nothing

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

lol whatever - I said "Swimming Noses", he said "the entire catfish might as well just be one big tongue" haha close enough

I guess now we have to figure out why some cats are so active and others just sit there and do nothing

Yea, that was uncanny

The same reason some people (mostly) sit by their computers and type up stuff, while others (mostly) venture into the wild and explore new and old catfish in their neck of the woods or all over the world. The difference between explorers, field ichthyologists and online "warriors"

Fish are biological, programmed machines with a tiny capacity for learning, or maybe rather adapting, within the realm of their instincts. What they do is their biology and mostly predictable in natural circumstances.

In an unnatural state like on life support inside a glass box, it becomes less predictable (note: not unpredictable) and subject to a myriad of factors and their combinations.

 

[Frank Castle]

The same reason some people (mostly) sit by their computers and type up stuff, while others (mostly) venture into the wild and explore new and old catfish in their neck of the woods or all over the world. The difference between explorers, field ichthyologists and online "warriors"

What if you happen to be a little of all 3 of those ?

Fish are biological, programmed machines with a tiny capacity for learning, or maybe rather adapting, within the realm of their instincts. What they do is their biology and mostly predictable in natural circumstances.

I can agree with that to an extent, but some fish are clearly smarter than others and show the ability to learn with much more potential - some fish strike me as so intelligent they could rival a rat finding the cheese in a maze if we could rig a puzzle a little more suiting to a fish - but then again, I bet with the right food at the center of a maze, a fish could find it.

In an unnatural state like on life support inside a glass box, it becomes less predictable (note: not unpredictable) and subject to a myriad of factors and their combinations.

So you think fish like Raphaels, Asian Bumblebee, Twig catfish, etc would be more active in the wild? It seems like no matter what I have done in the past, whether it be more hide-spaces or less hide-spaces all they do is hide - even when I removed ALL hidespaces, they still crammed into the gaps under the filters, between the glass/intakes and between the heater/bubble-walls desperately trying to find someplace to hide. My Asian Bumblebees actually acquired heater-burns from trying to hide between the heater and the tank glass.

Needless to say, the newer heater that came w/ a guard on it was much preferred after that I think some fish just do nothing and spend all their time hiding. Only reason I know they are active at night is because the handful of sinking pellets I drop in before bed is always 100% gone when I wake up

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

What if you happen to be a little of all 3 of those ?

According to my paper tiger postulate, one cannot be a little of all 3 or 2, what not. One of them must be the "mostly".

I can agree with that to an extent, but some fish are clearly smarter than others and show the ability to learn with much more potential - some fish strike me as so intelligent they could rival a rat finding the cheese in a maze if we could rig a puzzle a little more suiting to a fish - but then again, I bet with the right food at the center of a maze, a fish could find it.

Ok. I think it would too. Yet, no fish or a rat or a dog or even a chimpanzee will learn to retype a Bible, using a famous example... but qualitative terms can indeed be muddy. Scientists say less than 1% of fish biology / instincts can change in response to an outside perturbation of their norm. Sure, they can find food but won't look for useless pearls. We are still using their primodial instinct.

So you think fish like Raphaels, Asian Bumblebee, Twig catfish, etc would be more active in the wild? It seems like no matter what I have done in the past, whether it be more hide-spaces or less hide-spaces all they do is hide - even when I removed ALL hidespaces, they still crammed into the gaps under the filters, between the glass/intakes and between the heater/bubble-walls desperately trying to find someplace to hide. My Asian Bumblebees actually acquired heater-burns from trying to hide between the heater and the tank glass.

Needless to say, the newer heater that came w/ a guard on it was much preferred after that I think some fish just do nothing and spend all their time hiding. Only reason I know they are active at night is because the handful of sinking pellets I drop in before bed is always 100% gone when I wake up

No, not active. What I was saying is that animal, fish behavior can be predicted with some certainty. If the fish is nocturnal, or maniacally nocturnal and an equally maniacal hider, like the ones you mentioned, it will do that in the wild and to the best of its ability in a glass box.

They may be more active down below where it is ~ always dark but they also know when their main predators can't catch them, most of the predators being the diurnal fish which rely on eyesight. Wedging guards them from being pried out by predators, including catfish that rely on taste to find them. Self-preservation is another primal instinct. But you know all that anyway...

 

[Frank Castle]

According to my paper tiger postulate, one cannot be a little of all 3 or 2, what not. One of them must be the "mostly".



Ok. I think it would too. Yet, no fish or a rat or a dog or even a chimpanzee will learn to retype a Bible, using a famous example... but qualitative terms can indeed be muddy. Scientists say less than 1% of fish biology / instincts can change in response to an outside perturbation of their norm. Sure, they can find food but won't look for useless pearls. We are still using their primodial instinct.



No, not active. What I was saying is that animal, fish behavior can be predicted with some certainty. If the fish is nocturnal, or maniacally nocturnal and an equally maniacal hider, like the ones you mentioned, it will do that in the wild and to the best of its ability in a glass box.

They may be more active down below where it is ~ always dark but they also know when their main predators can't catch them, most of the predators being the diurnal fish which rely on eyesight. Wedging guards them from being pried out by predators, including catfish that rely on taste to find them. Self-preservation is another primal instinct. But you know all that anyway...

lol what predators could a Raphael POSSIBLY HAVE besides parasites??? LOL LOOK AT THOSE THINGS!!! They are TANKS WITH FINS!!! haha

 

[Deadliestviper7]

lol what predators could a Raphael POSSIBLY HAVE besides parasites??? LOL LOOK AT THOSE THINGS!!! They are TANKS WITH FINS!!! haha

Wolffish ,who seem especially made for eating armored fish species.

In response to why catfish swim past food:while many catfish have good eyesight they seldom use them for navigation or finding food,much like humans brains aren't usually used for olfactory based navigation.

 

[Frank Castle]

Wolffish ,who seem especially made for eating armored fish species.

In response to why catfish swim past food:while many catfish have good eyesight they seldom use them for navigation or finding food,much like humans brains aren't usually used for olfactory based navigation.

The Raphael has the nickname "Caiman-Killer" because when a Caiman tries to swallow them, they brace out their spines and choke thee Caiman to death and you think a predator less than 1/16 the size of a Caiman will have better luck eating them?

 

[Deadliestviper7]

The Raphael has the nickname "Caiman-Killer" because when a Caiman tries to swallow them, they brace out their spines and choke thee Caiman to death and you think a predator less than 1/16 the size of a Caiman will have better luck eating them?

Black wolffish are known predators of Raphael catfish,some tribes even claim it's there favorite food.

 

[Frank Castle]

Black wolffish are known predators of Raphael catfish,some tribes even claim it's there favorite food.

according to whom?