You're giving an example of superiority where your sump is roughly the same size as your main tank. That's like me having a 180G sump on my 180G tank. If your main tank's size was double than it is, and filtered by cans, then you'd have the same success.
A dispute always contributes better than a consensus. I think it is good to know why some things work better than others, instead of just stating an opinion without an explanation and without covering all aspects.
as currently my plants have been suffering nitrogen deficiency, which tells me I've got more than enough plants for the current bioload.
300 gal tank 100 gal sump. Buddy im not going back and forth with you your endlessly harping on bio media and that we're only thinking if one form if filtration along with being overstocked I suggest you stop assuming things, take a deep breath and maybe ask some question instead of making unfounded statements. You seem very upset. Go grab a spot of tea and chillYou're giving an example of superiority where your sump is roughly the same size as your main tank. That's like me having a 180G sump on my 180G tank. If your main tank's size was double than it is, and filtered by cans, then you'd have the same success.
I never questioned superiority of sumps. I questioned the necessity of them at all times, the lack of redundancy they provide, the multiple points of failure, and that there are alternatives that work as well, etc..
You're counting your bags of media and you think you've covered it all....There are many other methods of improving water quality which are superior to sumps or any fllters.. Aquaponics is an example. It can deal with pigs and severely overstocked tanks due to both using air exposed media and plants...
Some mentioned earlier in this thread that one does need a sump if their tank is at least 70G, which isn't true. Yes, you may need a 40G or 70G sump for it if you've severely ovestocked this tank. If you don't understand when to stop adding fish, and the major factors contributing to bad water quality, any filtration can be inefficient because the issue is not just ammonia. If it was, none of us will ever have water quality issues and the subsequent bad health of the inhabitants.
As I said, I am for simplicity and redundancy. I also use emersed plants to additionally help with other aspects of water quality. The baskets the plants are in have water passing through them, acting as extra filtration media, and you may not be able to see them but they are large enough. I am pretty certain I can safely house two oscars without a problem as far as biofiltration goes with the exact same combo of filtration I have. And in an electricity outage, I have active natural filtration that doesn't need one bit of electricity.
You're all obsessed about ammonia build up, and amount of media to counteract that. Besides water changes, and dealing with ammonia via filtration, there's other build up in a tank filters don't deal with. Here I admit your oversized sump is beneficial, because it dilutes the water, despite the fish not being able to swim in your sump. But maybe you should have an oversized tank for the fish load instead and not that much bioload.
So why don't you guys give an example of your size tank and amount of fish you've got to see why you're needing large sumps....or should I say additional large tank connected to your main tank in which you store equipment and filter media, as that's what it is...It's not some miracle filter...
I always say it, but until I see a TDS reading of one's tap water and compare it to what TDS the tank measures before a water change, all the talk about superior water quality is nonsense. Plus it would be beneficial to know the history of the fish housed too...
But yes, if your filtration, providing it is sensible in the first place, can't even manage the ammonia load, than the tank is not just underfiltered, it is overstocked... .One can temporarily manage it with oversized filtration to prevent at least ammonia build up, but it won't prevent deterioration of water quality long term, even if you manage the ammonia. And yes, in this case an oversized sump will help, to dilute....I am pretty certain it will help even without adding any bit of extra media to the setup..
A dispute always contributes better than a consensus. I think it is good to know why some things work better than others, instead of just stating an opinion without an explanation and without covering all aspects.
If I were to enforce my full view on tank setups, I'd also suggest emersed plants that also have access to window light as well as artificial light. As some said, if one is spending thousands on fish, they can also have enough space to house big emersed plants above their tank. In fact, if one has thousands to spend on fish, they can get thousands of gallons water for them, ideally....
As for my setup, the combo of large surface area, canisters and plant filtration works perfectly fine and can handle way more bioload than you tend to think. If it were possible to test, I'd take all your bioload in that tank above and manage it just fine in my tank. I can cheaply, without drilling or spending, can add more filtration, i.e. planted baskets...Maybe some of your fish will help
The reason I have a round plastic tank now is because I flooded my house twice already...not having it any time soon. One of the tanks was 13 years old, on the other the middle leg of the stand collapsed and it cracked right in the middle.
This is a pre-formed, seamless, standalone tank made from UV resistent MDPE. I've got no stand, no seams...Its in a room of its own, so no-one's looking at my cans out the back...You can barely see the heaters in it too but aesthetics has never been my major aim.
Bigfishnut
never ever tag me again lol
That is a nice looking setup, and the water definitely looks clear and clean. I have no doubt that you take great care of your tank and that it's filtered quite well. Sorry to hear about the floods too. I don't think I could take that and stay in the hobby. Thanks for posting the pictures.You're giving an example of superiority where your sump is roughly the same size as your main tank. That's like me having a 180G sump on my 180G tank. If your main tank's size was double than it is, and filtered by cans, then you'd have the same success.
I never questioned superiority of sumps. I questioned the necessity of them at all times, the lack of redundancy they provide, the multiple points of failure, and that there are alternatives that work as well, etc..
You're counting your bags of media and you think you've covered it all....There are many other methods of improving water quality which are superior to sumps or any fllters.. Aquaponics is an example. It can deal with pigs and severely overstocked tanks due to both using air exposed media and plants...
Some mentioned earlier in this thread that one does need a sump if their tank is at least 70G, which isn't true. Yes, you may need a 40G or 70G sump for it if you've severely ovestocked this tank. If you don't understand when to stop adding fish, and the major factors contributing to bad water quality, any filtration can be inefficient because the issue is not just ammonia. If it was, none of us will ever have water quality issues and the subsequent bad health of the inhabitants.
As I said, I am for simplicity and redundancy. I also use emersed plants to additionally help with other aspects of water quality. The baskets the plants are in have water passing through them, acting as extra filtration media, and you may not be able to see them but they are large enough. I am pretty certain I can safely house two oscars without a problem as far as biofiltration goes with the exact same combo of filtration I have. And in an electricity outage, I have active natural filtration that doesn't need one bit of electricity.
You're all obsessed about ammonia build up, and amount of media to counteract that. Besides water changes, and dealing with ammonia via filtration, there's other build up in a tank filters don't deal with. Here I admit your oversized sump is beneficial, because it dilutes the water, despite the fish not being able to swim in your sump. But maybe you should have an oversized tank for the fish load instead and not that much bioload.
So why don't you guys give an example of your size tank and amount of fish you've got to see why you're needing large sumps....or should I say additional large tank connected to your main tank in which you store equipment and filter media, as that's what it is...It's not some miracle filter...
I always say it, but until I see a TDS reading of one's tap water and compare it to what TDS the tank measures before a water change, all the talk about superior water quality is nonsense. Plus it would be beneficial to know the history of the fish housed too...
But yes, if your filtration, providing it is sensible in the first place, can't even manage the ammonia load, than the tank is not just underfiltered, it is overstocked... .One can temporarily manage it with oversized filtration to prevent at least ammonia build up, but it won't prevent deterioration of water quality long term, even if you manage the ammonia. And yes, in this case an oversized sump will help, to dilute....I am pretty certain it will help even without adding any bit of extra media to the setup..
A dispute always contributes better than a consensus. I think it is good to know why some things work better than others, instead of just stating an opinion without an explanation and without covering all aspects.
If I were to enforce my full view on tank setups, I'd also suggest emersed plants that also have access to window light as well as artificial light. As some said, if one is spending thousands on fish, they can also have enough space to house big emersed plants above their tank. In fact, if one has thousands to spend on fish, they can get thousands of gallons water for them, ideally....
As for my setup, the combo of large surface area, canisters and plant filtration works perfectly fine and can handle way more bioload than you tend to think. If it were possible to test, I'd take all your bioload in that tank above and manage it just fine in my tank. I can cheaply, without drilling or spending, can add more filtration, i.e. planted baskets...Maybe some of your fish will help
The reason I have a round plastic tank now is because I flooded my house twice already...not having it any time soon. One of the tanks was 13 years old, on the other the middle leg of the stand collapsed and it cracked right in the middle.
This is a pre-formed, seamless, standalone tank made from UV resistent MDPE. I've got no stand, no seams...Its in a room of its own, so no-one's looking at my cans out the back...You can barely see the heaters in it too but aesthetics has never been my major aim.
I am not one bit upset at all, considering I am amongst a pack of wolves. I am not assuming things. I'd quote all the post talking about ''amount of media' as a reference to good filtration but I'll run out of internet pages...So you've added a 100G tank to your 300G tank and present sumps as some miracle workers....Why not just buy a 400G tank next time.. A 50G sump will probably do then just fine...considering besides all the gear, you don't have that much media at all....but then turned the topic of conversation about amount of media...
Haha did...had an ac110 filled with purigen running off the 30 gal sump hahah
Lmao oh no you definitely are pissed hahha.
I can read quite well and perceive intentions for myself. I agree that the comments about media were made mostly not because large amounts are needed but because they were a way of attack on my statements. I just played your game afterwards
I am surprised that you think I am upset over it because I in fact enjoyed it
Tbh it really does sound like your getting upset. If not then ny all means we can absolutely debate this until the cows come home. I wasnt attacking any of your statements nor your filtration methods but only stating why i prefer sumps to cans. If you dont thats fine.I can read quite well and perceive intentions for myself. I agree that the comments about media were made mostly not because large amounts are needed but because they were a way of attack on my statements. I just played your game afterwards
I think its about time I stop. Thanks for the compliments I quite like your poly tank with red sand
I hope instead of just stating things for facts, people chime in with pictures of their setups and history of the fish inhabitants. That will give a better idea of how well a set up is functioning...
No, because I've never worried about ammonia issues. But I know you'll use this against me now
I hope the cows come home soon 
No, because I've never worried about ammonia issues. But I know you'll use this against me now
This is my previous set up before it cracked up. I had 4 cans on it and those green ammonia mops above
I could barely register nitrate ever, not to mind ammonia and needing sumps...
