only have 1 1cm fry surviving, I lost most of them the past weeks. hopefully, i can keep this alive. Parents slowly reduced laying eggs - i didn't bother collecting them to not disturb the parents.
SENEGAL BICHIR fry disappearing/dying at 1cm size
- Thread starter litigator666
- Start date
I've never bred Bichirs before, but if I did I would try to create a safe and somewhat natural environment for them, i.e. lots of space and lots of plants(lots!).
It would probably be a good idea to seperate the eggs/fry and parents, although it might not matter that much depending on space and on the species. If well fed and happy they might think twice about eating their offspring, but better safe than sorry as they say. It would really suck to have that bold, beautiful and active specimen be munched by a parent.
Natural selection would occur amongst the plants after hatching, but I would encourage this as it means the surviving stock will only be top notch. The young cannibalizing on each other is something Polypterids and many other species of animal have done for millions upon millions of years, and is an important way in which natural selection take place for these species. If all the fry survived in nature as they do in most captive bred situations the species would likely wither away and die rather quickly. Aside for inbreeding, I believe this is a major reason why we see stubby noses, faded markings and other genetic defects in many CB broods, and it is in fact the only reason at all why we see viable albino/longfin/shortbody broods. Again I would give them a lot of space and dense vegetation as it would mean the difference between the slow ones being singled out, and ending up with some sort of infant slaughterhouse. It would probably be a good idea to seperate the eggs/fry and parents as well, although it might not matter that much depending on space and on the species. If well fed and happy they might think twice about eating their offspring, but better safe than sorry as they say. It would really suck to have that bold, beautiful, and active specimen be suddenly munched by a parent.
I don't know why your fry keeps dying, but the tanks look rather barren and small, which means the water perimeters will be ****ty at worst and fluctuating at best. A large volume tank with dense vegetation would pretty much guarantee pristine waters. Always monitor the water perimeters as the fry is in a very delicate state at this point. I suppose there might be a psychological aspect to it also, something akin to Catatonia resulting from being in a crammed white room with a bunch of scared siblings who would like to eat you.
Speaking of food I would try to provide a varied diet, with a staple food and various side servings if you will. Ground up pellets, diced market prawns, cut up bloodworms, whatever. No matter what anyone tells you, a varied diet will consistently prove superior to anything else where growing is concerned, whether you're a fish or a bodybuilder. I would scatter the food amongst the plants, and let the fry find it with their developing smell. If you employ appropriate snails and a couple of right-size Ancistrus, debris will be kept at a minimum level despite all the nooks and crannies, so long as you don't overfeed and provide adequate filtration.
Again I haven't actually bred anything before, but from what I've read and common sense the above seems like a logical way to go about it. Best of luck.
It would probably be a good idea to seperate the eggs/fry and parents, although it might not matter that much depending on space and on the species. If well fed and happy they might think twice about eating their offspring, but better safe than sorry as they say. It would really suck to have that bold, beautiful and active specimen be munched by a parent.
Natural selection would occur amongst the plants after hatching, but I would encourage this as it means the surviving stock will only be top notch. The young cannibalizing on each other is something Polypterids and many other species of animal have done for millions upon millions of years, and is an important way in which natural selection take place for these species. If all the fry survived in nature as they do in most captive bred situations the species would likely wither away and die rather quickly. Aside for inbreeding, I believe this is a major reason why we see stubby noses, faded markings and other genetic defects in many CB broods, and it is in fact the only reason at all why we see viable albino/longfin/shortbody broods. Again I would give them a lot of space and dense vegetation as it would mean the difference between the slow ones being singled out, and ending up with some sort of infant slaughterhouse. It would probably be a good idea to seperate the eggs/fry and parents as well, although it might not matter that much depending on space and on the species. If well fed and happy they might think twice about eating their offspring, but better safe than sorry as they say. It would really suck to have that bold, beautiful, and active specimen be suddenly munched by a parent.
I don't know why your fry keeps dying, but the tanks look rather barren and small, which means the water perimeters will be ****ty at worst and fluctuating at best. A large volume tank with dense vegetation would pretty much guarantee pristine waters. Always monitor the water perimeters as the fry is in a very delicate state at this point. I suppose there might be a psychological aspect to it also, something akin to Catatonia resulting from being in a crammed white room with a bunch of scared siblings who would like to eat you.
Speaking of food I would try to provide a varied diet, with a staple food and various side servings if you will. Ground up pellets, diced market prawns, cut up bloodworms, whatever. No matter what anyone tells you, a varied diet will consistently prove superior to anything else where growing is concerned, whether you're a fish or a bodybuilder. I would scatter the food amongst the plants, and let the fry find it with their developing smell. If you employ appropriate snails and a couple of right-size Ancistrus, debris will be kept at a minimum level despite all the nooks and crannies, so long as you don't overfeed and provide adequate filtration.
Again I haven't actually bred anything before, but from what I've read and common sense the above seems like a logical way to go about it. Best of luck.
you have valid points and appreciate your ideas that i and other hobbyst will find useful.
Only happy to help I guess. I'd also like to mention that keeping a densely planted tank can be incredibly easy and low-maintenance so long as you choose the right plants. Plants like Anubias and Java fern are near impossible to kill by accident while stem plants like Cabomba and various Anacharis will grow over an inch a day in easy to achieve circumstances and multiply seriously fast. Many of the staple stem plants will likely be restricted in Australia for obvious reasons, but then again the afore-mentioned Cabomba and others are actually subtropical to temperate so might not be.
When all is said and done going about it in a big planted tank would actually save you a lot of work, and the survival rate would be consistent. And although little is known precisely about most Polypterids it's evident from morphology and other observations that many of them seriously crave plants while young and often into adult life. Again good luck whatever you do
When all is said and done going about it in a big planted tank would actually save you a lot of work, and the survival rate would be consistent. And although little is known precisely about most Polypterids it's evident from morphology and other observations that many of them seriously crave plants while young and often into adult life. Again good luck whatever you do
I personally would want a jungle look with bushfish, senegal bichir and synodontis angelicus (not sure if this will be considered a biotope project). Still a plan but I have all the fish already. Even have a big CO2 system on the garage gathering dust.
Would it be lovely to see hundreds of senegal bichir swimming - just need to keep the frys alive to make this dream a reality.
Would it be lovely to see hundreds of senegal bichir swimming - just need to keep the frys alive to make this dream a reality.
Just don't give up and you will succeed. Learn from your mistakes, learn from other people's mistakes, and gather information. One really can't know enough about anything. When times are hard and it feels as though you're failing, remember that if anybody else can do it then you can also. Trial and error, then success.
Hey mate I'm also in Australia and looking to breed my Bichir when old enough. Can you tell me how old both your mature Senegal's are and what is required to get them to try to breed so you can collect the eggs? I currently have three Senegals two female and one male who are at least 2 years old now. Would be nice to recover my costs. As you know these guys arn't cheap here....
I understand the $$$$ you need to spend for them. From my experience, you need just a pair that likes each other. I originally have 5 specimen that were collected/acquired as mature - kept them for approx 2 years. i'm not sure how old they were when I got them. I lost the rest due for no apparent reason and was lucky to have two surviving - a male and female. nothing happened when they were on the colony and eggs started when there were only two in the tank. tank is bare with just a mat of grass. lights 9am-7pm, water change with RO (but I now just use tap water). I feed them bloodworms and live african night crawlers (expensive - i can buy a happy meal with a few pcs of worms). I can trigger them to lay eggs but my prob is keeping the frys alive.
I have been experimenting on my ornate pair (7+years) but seems my approach fails. I gave up and dumped my pair in the community tank now as I loss hope for them. Maybe one day they'll do it, for now, I'm happy to just see them swimming around.
All the best on your endeavour.
I have been experimenting on my ornate pair (7+years) but seems my approach fails. I gave up and dumped my pair in the community tank now as I loss hope for them. Maybe one day they'll do it, for now, I'm happy to just see them swimming around.
All the best on your endeavour.
Thanks for the advice. So you arn't entirely sure of your surviving senegals age? Would you say they are probably at least 3-4 years old? The mat of grass is that real or artificial grass? The member mentioned earlier on here has bred ornates. I also have a pair of ornates, a pair of laps, a pair of endli's and two smaller ornates and one small lap. I hope to grow some monsters and breed these guys in the future if possible. It has been a very expensive endeavor indeed. I hope you can solve your issue of your fry dying at a small size.
I have a thread titled my Senegal Bichir spawned but like
litigator666
I too struggle to raise the fry .
