Official 2017/2018 NFL Discussion Thread

[Dieselhybrid]

We care, letting them do it on the clock is special treatment, 1st amendment doesn't apply. We definitely have the right to counter protest. Your attitude about lack of respect for our country is worth protesting definitely.

Please don't project your frustration with professional athletes onto me brother! I'm exercising my first amendment saying I think the position of being offended by this is soft. Just the way people being offended and afraid of statues and monuments is soft. The same way people being offended or afraid of confederate flags and nazi flags is soft. We Americans used to be globally respected for our grit and tenacity, our ability to endure. I travel the globe regularly, and now the regard has changed. I believe it's because we are becoming soft.

I think being this easily offended is laughable. But who cares what I think? You shouldn't. I'm just a businessman and a fish junkie sharing his thoughts on current events. I personally stood for the anthem when I represented my University in the NCAA and during my athletic career. When I attend events now, I always stand and enjoy the moment.

I am also an American who is black like many of these athletes, I have been unfairly treated by cops. But I don't get offended easily or hold illogical grudges. I personally believe this is the best damn country as I have lived in 5 other countries and visited dozens. I'm proud to be a citizen. I'm not going to let one dickhead cop 20 years ago ruin how I feel about our protectors. I wish these athletes agreed with me, but they don't, their worldview is narrow and they are young.

I'm not going to let these athletes and their distasteful displays taint my passion for the sport I love. Just like I'm not going to let a few jerk cops who kicked my butt years ago ruin how I feel about my country. This is because I feel both, are SOFT positions.


I do agree with you that it is entirely BS to do so on work or on the property of your employer. I would fire an employee in a heartbeat for causing such a distraction AND negatively impacting the sales of my products (in this case tickets). Your point is 100% valid about doing this at work. I agree, it's BS. They should start a chartity, organize a PEACEFUL protest rally, but keep that away from the workplace. I agree. I do say in the same breath that forcing them to do such a ritual at work, is likely in violation of labor laws and will definitely be challenged, possibly by the Supreme Court. Example: Jehovahs witnesses don't stand for the Anthem or even celebrate birthdays or any holiday. You couldn't force a football player with this religion to stand for this before a game, so that opens the door for exemptions by other players saying their "personal beliefs" conflict. So they can't force them to do it, and if they do they might be risking being forced to remove it entirely. This is likely why they chose not to enforce such a rule.

 

[Bigfishnut]

Please don't project your frustration with professional athletes onto me brother! I'm exercising my first amendment saying I think the position of being offended by this is soft. Just the way people being offended and afraid of statues and monuments is soft. The same way people being offended or afraid of confederate flags and nazi flags is soft. We Americans used to be globally respected for our grit and tenacity, our ability to endure. I travel the globe regularly, and now the regard has changed. I believe it's because we are becoming soft.

I think being this easily offended is laughable. But who cares what I think? You shouldn't. I'm just a businessman and a fish junkie sharing his thoughts on current events. I personally stood for the anthem when I represented my University in the NCAA and during my athletic career. When I attend events now, I always stand and enjoy the moment.

I am also an American who is black like many of these athletes, I have been unfairly treated by cops. But I don't get offended easily or hold illogical grudges. I personally believe this is the best damn country as I have lived in 5 other countries and visited dozens. I'm proud to be a citizen. I'm not going to let one dickhead cop 20 years ago ruin how I feel about our protectors. I wish these athletes agreed with me, but they don't, their worldview is narrow and they are young.

I'm not going to let these athletes and their distasteful displays taint my passion for the sport I love. Just like I'm not going to let a few jerk cops who kicked my butt years ago ruin how I feel about my country. This is because I feel both, are SOFT positions.


I do agree with you that it is entirely BS to do so on work or on the property of your employer. I would fire an employee in a heartbeat for causing such a distraction AND negatively impacting the sales of my products (in this case tickets). Your point is 100% valid about doing this at work. I agree, it's BS. They should start a chartity, organize a PEACEFUL protest rally, but keep that away from the workplace. I agree. I do say in the same breath that forcing them to do such a ritual at work, is likely in violation of labor laws and will definitely be challenged, possibly by the Supreme Court. Example: Jehovahs witnesses don't stand for the Anthem or even celebrate birthdays or any holiday. You couldn't force a football player with this religion to stand for this before a game, so that opens the door for exemptions by other players saying their "personal beliefs" conflict.

Spoken by a true American there! I couldn't agree more with every statement you just made Dieselhybrid !!!

 

[Drstrangelove]

I admire and liked your post, but I do disagree with one point.

I do say in the same breath that forcing them to do such a ritual at work, is likely in violation of labor laws and will definitely be challenged, possibly by the Supreme Court. Example: Jehovahs witnesses don't stand for the Anthem or even celebrate birthdays or any holiday. You couldn't force a football player with this religion to stand for this before a game, so that opens the door for exemptions by other players saying their "personal beliefs" conflict. So they can't force them to do it, and if they do they might be risking being forced to remove it entirely. This is likely why they chose not to enforce such a rule.

This depends entirely on the collective bargaining agreement (or terms of employment.) If a person signs a contract agreeing to stand, and it stipulates termination as a punishment for not standing, yes, they can be fired. This 'might' be mitigated by religious beliefs which largely or totally does not apply to the NFL players.

It's no different then firing on-air talent for cursing on-air, or for drinking and making obscene statements in public. Or being required to be at work by 9 AM and instead coming in at 10 AM. Or refusing to serve a policeman. People are legally fired for these things everyday.

Employees have a right to speak in public, but their bosses have a right to fire them if they speak certain things. Your constitutional rights are limited if you sign a contract agreeing to limit them... providing the contract is legal and enforceable under the law. (You can't agree or be forced into illegal behavior.)

But standing at attention is not illegal. In short, if an employee through a labor contract or terms of employment, agrees to limit speech or agrees to perform certain behavior while at work (priovided the acts themselves are legal) it's not unconstitutional to be terminated for failure to perform. That's what labor law is and it's the law the Supreme Court has supported.

Does the Commissioner have the right to enforce reasonable, legal requirements under the integrity and character provisions of the NFL CBA?

 

[FMA4ME]

Please don't project your frustration with professional athletes onto me brother! I'm exercising my first amendment saying I think the position of being offended by this is soft. Just the way people being offended and afraid of statues and monuments is soft. The same way people being offended or afraid of confederate flags and nazi flags is soft. We Americans used to be globally respected for our grit and tenacity, our ability to endure. I travel the globe regularly, and now the regard has changed. I believe it's because we are becoming soft.

I think being this easily offended is laughable. But who cares what I think? You shouldn't. I'm just a businessman and a fish junkie sharing his thoughts on current events. I personally stood for the anthem when I represented my University in the NCAA and during my athletic career. When I attend events now, I always stand and enjoy the moment.

I am also an American who is black like many of these athletes, I have been unfairly treated by cops. But I don't get offended easily or hold illogical grudges. I personally believe this is the best damn country as I have lived in 5 other countries and visited dozens. I'm proud to be a citizen. I'm not going to let one dickhead cop 20 years ago ruin how I feel about our protectors. I wish these athletes agreed with me, but they don't, their worldview is narrow and they are young.

I'm not going to let these athletes and their distasteful displays taint my passion for the sport I love. Just like I'm not going to let a few jerk cops who kicked my butt years ago ruin how I feel about my country. This is because I feel both, are SOFT positions.


I do agree with you that it is entirely BS to do so on work or on the property of your employer. I would fire an employee in a heartbeat for causing such a distraction AND negatively impacting the sales of my products (in this case tickets). Your point is 100% valid about doing this at work. I agree, it's BS. They should start a chartity, organize a PEACEFUL protest rally, but keep that away from the workplace. I agree. I do say in the same breath that forcing them to do such a ritual at work, is likely in violation of labor laws and will definitely be challenged, possibly by the Supreme Court. Example: Jehovahs witnesses don't stand for the Anthem or even celebrate birthdays or any holiday. You couldn't force a football player with this religion to stand for this before a game, so that opens the door for exemptions by other players saying their "personal beliefs" conflict. So they can't force them to do it, and if they do they might be risking being forced to remove it entirely. This is likely why they chose not to enforce such a rule.

While I respect your opinion, I disagree being offended here is soft. Why? Because imo there are so few times you are asked to honor and respect our flag and anthem. Do we even do the pledge of allegiance anymore? Imo, the least we can do is take pride, and be thankful for 1 minute and appreciate how we get to live the other 23hrs and 59 minutes.

 

[Dieselhybrid]

Just a grumpy old man's opinion.

So is this: Go Seahawks!

 

[jaws7777]

I kind of agree with deisel on this to an extent. We had a thread going awhile back where certain members said they were offended by the blue lives matter avatar and we all got on him for "being offended"

We can choose to not purchase nfl gear, by tickets or jerseys of players that dont stand. Thats an individual choice but at the end of the day i love the game. I live the lessons football can teach a kid that no other sport can. My kid is playing flag this year and starting to watch the games with me. No way im going to pass up these experiences with my son because if thus crap.

I dont like that they dont stand and ive been saying this for a while im not so sure the nfl can do anything. Most of the laws or things that goodell is allowed to do has been collectively bargained.

Yrs ago the players werent even on the field for the anthem. I say just go back to that.

What i dont understand is what the anthem has to do with cops or law enforcement?

Yet again this is a golden opportunity to fix something thats IS BROKEN but is being missed by the masses. Cops in my opinion are just like the rest of us some good some bad the real problem is the court system.

 

[skjl47]

The 1st protects even burning the American flag, kneeling is nothing. Who cares!?

Hello; I care. Yes I guess burning the flag as a protest is protected but I still do not like it. It is my understanding that burning in a respectful manner as a way to retire an old flag is part of a proper flag ceremony. I guess this is not the kind of burning you are talking about.
Kneeling is an act of disrespect for the flag much as standing at attention and saluting is an act of respect.
That disrespect is the entire point. Find some other way to push an agenda and I will not necessarily be offended. But kneeling during the formal presentation of the flag is not on the acceptable menu of ways to protest. That is unless the protest is against the flag and what it stands for.

We care, letting them do it on the clock is special treatment, 1st amendment doesn't apply.

Hello; THIS.

That's right.....excercise your rights on your own time.

Hello; THIS.

But the anthem has nothing to do with law enforcement

Hello; THIS.

I do agree with you that it is entirely BS to do so on work or on the property of your employer. I would fire an employee in a heartbeat for causing such a distraction AND negatively impacting the sales of my products (in this case tickets). Your point is 100% valid about doing this at work. I agree, it's BS.

Hello; THIS.

If a person signs a contract agreeing to stand, and it stipulates termination as a punishment for not standing, yes, they can be fired. This 'might' be mitigated by religious beliefs which largely or totally does not apply to the NFL players.

Hello; THIS.

While I respect your opinion, I disagree being offended here is soft. Why? Because imo there are so few times you are asked to honor and respect our flag and anthem.

Hello; THIS.

What i dont understand is what the anthem has to do with cops or law enforcement?

Hello; Nor do I. I can support fair treatment for all under the law but do not see how our flag ceremony has anything to do with it.

Most of the laws or things that goodell is allowed to do has been collectively bargained.

Hello; I am not sure about this. If such were the case then how did the rules about standing for the flag get into the NFL rulebook? Those rules about the anthem and flag ceremony were in place before the first knee was taken is my understanding.

 

[Dieselhybrid]

Cheers! I feel fortunate to live in a free country. Not everyone has the luxury

 

[jaws7777]

Hello; I care. Yes I guess burning the flag as a protest is protected but I still do not like it. It is my understanding that burning in a respectful manner as a way to retire an old flag is part of a proper flag ceremony. I guess this is not the kind of burning you are talking about.
Kneeling is an act of disrespect for the flag much as standing at attention and saluting is an act of respect.
That disrespect is the entire point. Find some other way to push an agenda and I will not necessarily be offended. But kneeling during the formal presentation of the flag is not on the acceptable menu of ways to protest. That is unless the protest is against the flag and what it stands for.


Hello; THIS.


Hello; THIS.


Hello; THIS.


Hello; THIS.


Hello; THIS.


Hello; THIS.


Hello; Nor do I. I can support fair treatment for all under the law but do not see how our flag ceremony has anything to do with it.


Hello; I am not sure about this. If such were the case then how did the rules about standing for the flag get into the NFL rulebook? Those rules about the anthem and flag ceremony were in place before the first knee was taken is my understanding.

The words should or may remove any responsibility of punishment. In any court hearing, or contract negotions these two words would cause any arguement for punishment to fall apart they are basically suggesting what to do. Now if they change the rule and/or wording that is a different story.

 

[skjl47]

The words should or may remove any responsibility of punishment.

Hello; I do not see it that way. Sure the words should and may are the mechanism by which the NFL is avoiding doing the right thing. The word may in the punishment paragraph also gives the NFL bosses all the authority needed to hand out some form of punishment.

That they choose not to use the available authority is not at all lost on me. They can if they wish to, but they prefer to make me angry. I think the NFL is weak on this particular issue and that they are hiding behind words does not impress me at all.

I get that pro football is a great thing to watch. I did not understand how much it means to me until I tried to not watch lately. I am struggling with it but the disrespect for the flag is a bit too much. If you like football enough to swallow the insult to our flag that is your option. I had some hope the NFL would show some backbone today but they muffed this one.

May means you can do a thing if you choose to.