Official 2017/2018 NFL Discussion Thread

[skjl47]

Hello; This is one of the reasons why I care about the flag ceremony. The picture is of my father. It was taken on the island of Iwo Jima during WWII. He is sitting in a shell hole. A marine corps photographer tracked him down a day or so after he led Sherman tanks thru a minefield under enemy fire. His company was trying to take airport #1 which was defended by a mine field and enemy machine guns. The tanks were needed but there was only a narrow path clear thru the mines. Other marines had already tried to get to the tanks to guide them and had been shot.
When it was my fathers turn to try he made it to the back of a lead tank. He tried to talk to the driver by a telephone at the back of the tank but it was damaged. He then walked out in front of the tanks and walked thru the mine field under enemy fire. He had to just walk because the tanks were slowed by the sand. The tanks followed and somehow with rounds flying all around he was not hit. The tanks made the difference.
The photo was taken because his action resulted in his getting a medal. He was later shot in a place called the "meat grinder". He lived.

I do not like a lot of things that go on around here but to me these unpleasant things are no reason to disrespect the flag. Yes it is personal.

 

[skjl47]

View attachment 1280099 Hello; This is one of the reasons why I care about the flag ceremony. The picture is of my father. It was taken on the island of Iwo Jima during WWII. He is sitting in a shell hole. A marine corps photographer tracked him down a day or so after he led Sherman tanks thru a minefield under enemy fire. His company was trying to take airport #1 which was defended by a mine field and enemy machine guns. The tanks were needed but there was only a narrow path clear thru the mines. Other marines had already tried to get to the tanks to guide them and had been shot.
When it was my fathers turn to try he made it to the back of a lead tank. He tried to talk to the driver by a telephone at the back of the tank but it was damaged. He then walked out in front of the tanks and walked thru the mine field under enemy fire. He had to just walk because the tanks were slowed by the sand. The tanks followed and somehow with rounds flying all around he was not hit. The tanks made the difference.
The photo was taken because his action resulted in his getting a medal. He was later shot in a place called the "meat grinder". He lived.

I do not like a lot of things that go on around here but to me these unpleasant things are no reason to disrespect the flag. Yes it is personal.

Hello; Thanks to those who "liked" my post. I hope to try to add a bit more insight. It is my guess that there are millions of folks with "reasons" in some way similar to mine who want to see the flag ceremony honored properly. My particular reason being no more important nor unique than anyone else's.
Another guess is many have even stronger feelings than I do because a loved one was lost during service to our country the flag represents. Some have the flag that was draped over a casket on respectful display in a home.
That said I get that the courts have decided we may choose to not honor the flag. I also get that when a sports celebrity takes a knee on TV during the flag ceremony, that action gets lots of attention. If I am short sighted then so be it, but I do not want the flag ceremony to be an attention getting part of some protest unrelated to what the flag stands for.

The flag is only a bit of cloth to some. To others it is one of the more important symbols we have. As I already said there are a lot of things going on in this country that I am upset about and these things need to be fixed. If I ever decide to protest these upsetting things I do not plan to associate the flag with these elements I do not like. I guess I am similar to a horse with blinders on in that when I see the flag I am not seeing the elements I dislike.

 

[jaws7777]

Im jist saying from experience having been sued quite a few times and being braught up on departemental charges that words may and shall do not stand up in court hearings and disciplinary hearings.

This is not as clear cut as we would like it to be. Now a coach can choose to not play anyone they like such as the dolphins coach threatening to sit his players. But to use a formal form of discipline would probably lose. Simply because they "shall" or "may" sit changes everything.

I had a rookie captain that hated me try and bring me up on charges. She wrote me up for some b.s. when she served me my corrective interview notice. I literally laughed outloud knowing this particular directive like the back of my hand was filled with words like may, should, and best attempt to. The charges were almost immediately thrown out.

Ive seen this happen in court cases as well

 

[jaws7777]

Im jist saying from experience having been sued quite a few times and being braught up on departemental charges that words may and shall do not stand up in court hearings and disciplinary hearings.

This is not as clear cut as we would like it to be. Now a coach can choose to not play anyone they like such as the dolphins coach threatening to sit his players. But to use a formal form of discipline would probably lose. Simply because they "shall" or "may" sit changes everything.

I had a rookie captain that hated me try and bring me up on charges. She wrote me up for some b.s. when she served me my corrective interview notice. I literally laughed outloud knowing this particular directive like the back of my hand was filled with words like may, should, and best attempt to. The charges were almost immediately thrown out.

Ive seen this happen in court cases as well

Actually now that i think of it i beat allot of these types of charges because of words like may or should. They just dont hold up. Infact i was once charge with excessive use of force along with some other nonesense and prior to the hearing was told by a union delagate that the union had very little say in the actual rules being applied to the directives BUT had a great deal of involvement in the wording.

Example : officers shall make an attempt to not strike and inmate in the face.
I struck the inmate in the face

Officers shall make an attempt to notify their area capt when no video camera is present in the yard.

No camera was present.

Because of the wording i was cleared.

 

[skjl47]

Because of the wording i was cleared.

Hello; I get and think I understand your points. The players who kneel and the NFL can use the wording to get a technical way out. That does not matter to me much. I am upset because of what I have seen even if there were no written rules at all.
I am under no written rules to stand and honor the flag ceremony, yet I do. A word game around that the players should stand and they may be punished does not impress me. I think the NFL needs to punish the kneeling players because the word may gives the option they can use if they want.

 

[jaws7777]

Hello; I get and think I understand your points. The players who kneel and the NFL can use the wording to get a technical way out. That does not matter to me much. I am upset because of what I have seen even if there were no written rules at all.
I am under no written rules to stand and honor the flag ceremony, yet I do. A word game around that the players should stand and they may be punished does not impress me. I think the NFL needs to punish the kneeling players because the word may gives the option they can use if they want.

We all agree about this tho. Yes they should stand.

Lets be clear tho these idiots are protesting law enforcement. These same players have been openly supporting BLM. Imo BLM is a hate group. Had they stuck to they're initial message that would be one thing but they've been running around chanting death to cops and all sorts of nonesense.

It all started with them. Kap meets the lowlife girl and becomes and activist. Many players and the media support him. Cops are being killed and thats just what we hear about. Talk to a c.o or sheriffs dept member and hear all the nonesense theyve had to put up with because of BLM.

Now i nor anyone else was talking about boycotting the NFL during all of this. But now we are.... this may piss pff some of you and i have a deep respect for our armed forces just as much as i do the men ans women the protect our communities every day. I do not think our military deserves more or less respect than a P.O thats working a crime ridden neighborhood, the sheriff that has to serve a warrant to a low life that knows its coming, the c.o that works day in day out surrounded by gang members. Imo cops have been killed directly because o BLM i nor anyine else has boycotted the NFL during this time but now im to believe that these idiots disrespecting not only our soldiers but there oqn country is some how worse than whats already taken place ?.....nope not me

If the NFL cannot come to an agreement with the players union what are they supposed to do ?

 

[skjl47]

these idiots are protesting law enforcement

These same players have been openly supporting BLM. Imo BLM is a hate group.

Kap meets the lowlife girl and becomes and activist

Cops are being killed and thats just what we hear about. Talk to a c.o or sheriffs dept member and hear all the nonesense theyve had to put up with because of BLM.

Hello; I am with you on all of the above comments. They sound correct to me.

Now i nor anyone else was talking about boycotting the NFL during all of this. But now we are..

Imo cops have been killed directly because o BLM i nor anyine else has boycotted the NFL during this time

hello; Here is where I am a bit lost. If the NFL was somehow tied with BLM before the first kneeling of Kap over a year ago I was not aware of it. I was and continue to be disgusted with the BLM chants about killing police. I also think this group has made things more risky for police and CO's. What I am saying is I must have missed the connection with BLM and the NFL.
When Kap first started taking a knee during the flag ceremony I was bothered by it right away because of the disrespect. I did learn a little about why he took a knee but in truth his cause was not the thing I focused on. I guess it did not matter much to me what he was protesting exactly, only that the protest was during the flag ceremony. Had he been protesting natural gas fracking it would have still not been right to me to do so during the flag ceremony.
Any more I do not know what most of the players are taking a knee about and have not bothered to find out. Another way I see this avenue of protest is that I do not think it is helping their cause.

If the NFL cannot come to an agreement with the players union what are they supposed to do ?

Hello; The NFL can take a hit with the players (their employees) or they can take a hit with folks like me who have been dedicated fans for decades. It has taken a lot for me to consider quitting the NFL but I am there. I can get along without the NFL and if they can get along without me, so be it. I also think the NFL sponsors will have less of my eye time if I am not watching the games.
I feel a bit bad for the players who stand and feel they do not deserve to have their lively hood tarnished because the NFL will not do what needs to be done.

So far my list of standing teams is Dallas, Indy and the Dolphins. I will watch when those teams play each other. If other teams all stand I will add them to my list.

 

[jaws7777]

"Here is where I am a bit lost. If the NFL was somehow tied with BLM before the first kneeling of Kap over a year ago I was not aware of it"

The initial kneeling protest by kap was in protest of law enforcemenent and a racially unfair system. Which all happened not long after he began dating the BLM activist.

"The NFL can take a hit with the players (their employees) or they can take a hit with folks like me who have been dedicated fans for decades"

In your opinion what should the nfl do about it ?

"Had he been protesting natural gas fracking it would have still not been right to me to do so during the flag ceremony"

Yet this kneeling nonesense has been going on for well over a yr. Other players were doing it last year all while police officers were being hunted. I dont recall anyone talking about boycotting the nfl then (i could be wrong) it seems to me that all the boycott talk started this year after trump made his statement and the entire league kneeled the following week.

I dont see it being any more wrong this year than it was last year.

Main question why is it worse that they are protesting the military (which to my understanding they are not only being uneducated in this and connecting our anthem to law enforcemnt) over law enforcement ? To me it seems the military being disrespected is being met with much more criticism than law enforcement being disrespected.

 

[skjl47]

hello @jaws777 Thanks for taking the time to expand. I better understand what you have been saying.

First let me say that I think both the police being disrespected and the flag being disrespected are bad. I am not sure if one is worse that the other so will stick with both are bad. I bought blue bulbs last year for my front porch light and have one in place now. I let any officer I talk to know they have my support and did just this a little over a week ago.

I do not know how to judge if the players taking a knee is getting more criticism that the BLM rants against the police. The folks around me have been pretty vocal on both. I guess the flag/kneeling is the hotter topic of discussion right now. I have been writing about the NFL because this is an NFL thread. I do not know if a BLM thread will be allowed on this forum.

I guess last year it was only Kaipernick for a while and it seemed that when he was eventually out of football I had wrongly thought that sort of protest was going to die out. I will say that some I know around here did stop watching and/or supporting the 49'ers because of it. For a time I thought it was only Kap being led astray by a skirt. I have been there to one degree or another myself. I recall thinking he was committing career suicide over a woman at the time.

This season there were even more taking a knee. I was already bothered by that and discussed with my neighbor about boycotting some teams even before President Trump chimed in. Even tho I think President Trump fanned the flames I do agree with him. I had used even worse language that he did.
Now it is a bigger deal and I cannot find a clear way to know which players to support for standing because so many others are taking a knee. I have tried a web search in order to make a list of which teams are all standing.
I do not like the idea of the TV not showing the opening flag ceremony and I do not like the idea of the teams staying in the locker room.
What should the NFL do? At this point I think the players who take a knee on the field during the ceremony should be benched that day. Take a second knee and be suspended from dressing out for three games. Take a third knee and consider it a violation of their contract under the existing written rules and be expelled from football. They kicked Pete Rose out of baseball for life.

 

[jaws7777]

hello @jaws777 Thanks for taking the time to expand. I better understand what you have been saying.

First let me say that I think both the police being disrespected and the flag being disrespected are bad. I am not sure if one is worse that the other so will stick with both are bad. I bought blue bulbs last year for my front porch light and have one in place now. I let any officer I talk to know they have my support and did just this a little over a week ago.

I do not know how to judge if the players taking a knee is getting more criticism that the BLM rants against the police. The folks around me have been pretty vocal on both. I guess the flag/kneeling is the hotter topic of discussion right now. I have been writing about the NFL because this is an NFL thread. I do not know if a BLM thread will be allowed on this forum.

I guess last year it was only Kaipernick for a while and it seemed that when he was eventually out of football I had wrongly thought that sort of protest was going to die out. I will say that some I know around here did stop watching and/or supporting the 49'ers because of it. For a time I thought it was only Kap being led astray by a skirt. I have been there to one degree or another myself. I recall thinking he was committing career suicide over a woman at the time.

This season there were even more taking a knee. I was already bothered by that and discussed with my neighbor about boycotting some teams even before President Trump chimed in. Even tho I think President Trump fanned the flames I do agree with him. I had used even worse language that he did.
Now it is a bigger deal and I cannot find a clear way to know which players to support for standing because so many others are taking a knee. I have tried a web search in order to make a list of which teams are all standing.
I do not like the idea of the TV not showing the opening flag ceremony and I do not like the idea of the teams staying in the locker room.
What should the NFL do? At this point I think the players who take a knee on the field during the ceremony should be benched that day. Take a second knee and be suspended from dressing out for three games. Take a third knee and consider it a violation of their contract under the existing written rules and be expelled from football. They kicked Pete Rose out of baseball for life.

I agree with you on allot of this. I feel like this is a crappy issue and yet another thing that causes more divide in our country.