Help a newbie cycle his tank

[duanes]

Just an FYI, a squeeze of filter water is really not the way to get a cycle going.
Beneficial bacteria are sessile, which means they live as biofilm on surfaces, they are not planktonic floating in the water.

 

[duanes]

Just an FYI, a squeeze of filter water is really not the way to get a cycle going.
Beneficial bacteria are sessile, which means they live as biofilm on surfaces, they are not planktonic floating in the water.

 

[Not another new tank]

My penny's worth and I think you already know this anyways: Its difficult to rush this, why? Its a balance between food for the bacteria which as you know comes via the fish just breathing and pooing or something dead and the bacteria multiplication process. Just adding bacteria from any source at the start of the cycle results in dead bacteria as they have no food until the NH3 rises. How long does that take?? Many factors. But the bacteria you added at the start via whatever means will be mostly dead as its had no food, so your NH3 hits the roof and people think how come?? Now, converting NH3 to NO2 is the easypeasy one. The problem is NO2 to Nitrate, now the bacteria that converts NH3 to NO2 is killed by high levels of NH3 and can take weeks whilst they multiply to sufficient level, all the time your fish are in this toxic mix of fluctuating levels. Also this depends on what media you have to grow the bacteria on, plastic can take months, just so many factors and if you stop the process by doing a water change your right back to the start. I like the oldest method, get it all up and running, pop in a prawn or part of one. WAIT until your NH3 hits the high mark on your test kit and then add the bacteria in the bottle form, no nasty's from anyone else's tank. And then wait, do not remove the prawn let it be and keep testing. Your NH3 will drop fast because the bacteria is everywhere in the air around the world (good old mother nature hey) and now your into the long wait until the NO2 drop and remember you have to feed them or they will die. As soon as the NO2 drop pop in your fish and monitor. At the nd of the day there is no easy/fast way. People who tell there is have not monitored the levels 1000s times/day has the level rise and fall. But you will hear of is, well fancy that, crazy Joe was fine for a month in the new tank and I found him dead this morning

 

[skjl47]

if you stop the process by doing a water change your right back to the start.

Hello; I do not follow why a WC will stop the bacteria from growing unless during a fishless cycle and are trying to keep the ammonia levels up. Without fish in the tank the levels are not hurting any fish?

then add the bacteria in the bottle form, no nasty's from anyone else's tank

Hello; Yes I see the risk here.

 

[markstrimaran]

So am I the only one, who has just brought home a bucket of clean river sand. Along with some free critters. Knock on wood, I have never had a disease doing this. Just snails, daphnia, planaria, hydra, routifers, and these micro water skippers.

 

[Not another new tank]

Hello; I do not follow why a WC will stop the bacteria from growing unless during a fishless cycle and are trying

Its the same in both scenarios, it matters not whether you are cycling with or without fish (why would you put any fish in a tank to cycle the system anyways beats me). If you remove the food which you are doing with a WC by dropping the NO3 and/or No2 how can the bacteria multiply?? You are going back to a clean system or at the very least dropping the food levels, no/reduced food means slower or even stopping the cycle dead. And in the worst case in which you do a WC and remove the food as well the bacteria will die = back to the start. If you read the blogs people can take months to cycle their tanks because they pop in fish and then see the levels go through the roof. At this point you loose your fish or do a WC and stop and stop the cycle and this goes on and on and on and on

 

[Not another new tank]

So am I the only one, who has just brought home a bucket of clean river sand. Along with some free critters. Knock on wood, I have never had a disease doing this. Just snails, daphnia, planaria, hydra, routifers, and these micro water skippers.

I'm not sure that's all you would bring home!! Unless you do a microscopic test of all your stock both external and internal how do you know what you've brought onto your tank?? And if you think about it you stated 6 forms of life, along with those 6 I'd have thought you also bought many you don't know about. I cant see why anyone would take the risk when its so easy to cycle a tank fishless and without the risk of contamination. But hey that's each persons choice.

 

[markstrimaran]

I'm not sure that's all you would bring home!! Unless you do a microscopic test of all your stock both external and internal how do you know what you've brought onto your tank?? And if you think about it you stated 6 forms of life, along with those 6 I'd have thought you also bought many you don't know about. I cant see why anyone would take the risk when its so easy to cycle a tank fishless and without the risk of contamination. But hey that's each persons choice.

I like diversity, I am use to salt water set ups, They use LIVE, rock, it comes with the good and the bad. I like to think that, a strong daphnia population, will chow down on any pathogens. As will routifers, and hydra, it is the whole cycle.

 

[skjl47]

why would you put any fish in a tank to cycle the system anyways beats me

Hello; I don't do this myself but many threads start out a statement such as "my fish are dying". We get into the thread and find that the tank was set up and fish put in right away. They do not have another tank or quick source of bb loaded material.
I guess if a person is cold hearted and willing to sacrifice a fish or few to fairly bad ammonia burn and a miserable death sooner than later, then it is a way to start a cycle.
I get your point in that the first thing we suggest is usually a big water change when fish are in and the ammonia and nitrite are present.

At this point you loose your fish or do a WC and stop and stop the cycle and this goes on and on and on and on

Hello; I appreciate your way of presenting this from a slightly different point of view, at least to me. The last time I had to start a tank almost from scratch was back in 1999. I had to put my fish in tanks in a classroom because I took a job in NC. I was down to not many smaller fish at the time so it could have been worse. The job lasted two years and before the second year was out the students had poisoned all my fish. I picked up a few plants and a few snails to start a new set up with from a fish shop.

 

[J. H.]

So am I the only one, who has just brought home a bucket of clean river sand. Along with some free critters. Knock on wood, I have never had a disease doing this. Just snails, daphnia, planaria, hydra, routifers, and these micro water skippers.

Walstad tanks (dirted tanks) use backyard dirt for an instant cycle, they keep the dirt under a layer of gravel or sand, as it feeds the plants, and it has the added benefit of naturally containing the bacteria you need.

I'm not sure that's all you would bring home!! Unless you do a microscopic test of all your stock both external and internal how do you know what you've brought onto your tank?? And if you think about it you stated 6 forms of life, along with those 6 I'd have thought you also bought many you don't know about. I cant see why anyone would take the risk when its so easy to cycle a tank fishless and without the risk of contamination. But hey that's each persons choice.

I have used the raw fish cycle thing too, I agree it is the best way if you are going to start from scratch. Easy, simple and cheap