Tank Upgrade 450-550g Planning

[nzafi]

I think BDS comes in multiple grits. One is a fine sand and another was medium grit. I had medium grit that how no risk of getting sucked into my ac110s because it was too heavy. Doubt with an ultima that would work.

 

[nzafi]

Continue doing research. Started pulling together a cost analysis of setup and then running maintenance. The costs only include filter setup (including pvc) and assume I am reusing existing media and heaters. I included current setup of my 180g for comparison. I also had a focus on redundancy redundancy and minimum of 6 times total turnover.

Outcome is really interesting. My thoughts
1) HMF cheapest to setup and run. This offers the least amount of mechanical and probably will result in particles in the water. Not for those that want crystal clear water. I think I have eliminated the idea of running currently with an RTL metchanical filter as this will cost almost the same as me just setting up option 2.
2) Sump is the second cheapest to setup but the most expensive to run. The reason for this is that I assumed a 30% saving in energy for my heaters in a closed loop system including that this is an acrylic tank and larger body of water. For the sump option, I only assumed 20%. Heaters are easily the biggest cost for running a tank

I am still undecided in which direction I will go. A big part includes how do I place intakes/outtakes as I want this to be a "show" tank and want piping and equipment hidden in the tank.

I couldn't list all of my assumptions but did want to share. I will say that marine depot had a great calculator for figuring out running costs. Feel free to share your thoughts.

https://www.marinedepot.com/md_educationcenter_calculators_tank_electrical.html

 

[nzafi]

Forgot to mention, probably only option 2 and 3 will allow me to get rid of gravel vacuuming. Less maintenance is argueable as option 1 with the hmf should only require sponge cleaning once a year, while using ultima will periodic backflushing.

 

[nzafi]

It has been awhile since I updated this. Finally got the go ahead to order my tank in the next couple weeks. I will be taking several weeks off in June and need to make sure I receive tank and equipment by then.

I have reached out to both Fishtanksdirect and Midwest for early quotes on the tank. The price difference is somewhat significant and I am trying to figure out how I tell the difference between the quality. Midwest is among favorites but FTD is also reputable.

The tank dimensions will be approximately 8x4x30 and both manufacturers will be using 3/4in acrylic for the whole tank. The one big difference between the manufactures is that FTD places a 1/8in piece of black acrylic on the back and bottom instead of painting the outside of the tank. Midwest only paints the tank as they are concerned about different absorption rates that cause high spots.

wednesday13 hate to pester but yo are the local acyrlic guru. Any feedback on telling the difference between acrylic quality? Thoughts on the approach for making the back and bottom black?

 

[nzafi]

Forgot to mention my filtration approach currently. I will definitely be doing an ultima which will be used for both bio and mechanical. The main purpose is to allow me to get away from any gravel/bottom siphoning. I am currently between doing corner HMF filters as backup and to hide equipment or to do internal boxes that will contain K1 media similar to what JK47 is doing for his current build. There are current considerations:

HMF
- Small foot print at 8in radius which will probably be about 65% of the footprint of internal boxes
- If I ever lose power the HMF sponges in the tank go a long way for continuing to support the tank
- Biggest downside is the need to maintain the sponges and clean them

K1
- Biggest concern is around space internal to the tank and cost to setup and maintain
- From what I have read I will need a ton of air to move the K1 and then I will need even more air or pumps to move water from the boxes to the main tank
- Biggest advantage will be lack of maintenance but if the cost of setup and maintenance is much higher than HMF I might be forced away from this approach

I will be putting together some diagrams in the coming days as I need to provide that to the manufacturer of choice to get their input.

 

[wednesday13]

It has been awhile since I updated this. Finally got the go ahead to order my tank in the next couple weeks. I will be taking several weeks off in June and need to make sure I receive tank and equipment by then.

I have reached out to both Fishtanksdirect and Midwest for early quotes on the tank. The price difference is somewhat significant and I am trying to figure out how I tell the difference between the quality. Midwest is among favorites but FTD is also reputable.

The tank dimensions will be approximately 8x4x30 and both manufacturers will be using 3/4in acrylic for the whole tank. The one big difference between the manufactures is that FTD places a 1/8in piece of black acrylic on the back and bottom instead of painting the outside of the tank. Midwest only paints the tank as they are concerned about different absorption rates that cause high spots.

wednesday13 hate to pester but yo are the local acyrlic guru. Any feedback on telling the difference between acrylic quality? Thoughts on the approach for making the back and bottom black?

All i know for sure about acrylic quality is to stay away from anything being mfg. in mexico... Altu Glas used to be one of the best but its harder to come by these days. As for making acrylic black i prefer to paint the outsides... if theres ever an issue with ur seams it makes it harder to reinforce/repair with the 1/8" black material on the inside of the tank as u cant see where the issues are and in turn have to almost reglue the entire permitter of the inside sheet. Most the time they do a half ass job glueing in the 1/8" sheets and its not actually sealed in just kinda "tacked" on. I actually have a buddys tank made in that fashion... water got behind the black acrylic...froze...and basically shattered the 3/4" acrylic underneath... an extreme case yes, but now its a nightmare to repair. if the one company only offers that, id just get a "plain" tank and paint the outside/bottom myself so u can still see ur seals/seams. I have one tank that came with a vinyl backround, so thats another option if u dont like paint. IMO the paint will also look better... black acrylic will show scratches and is kinda dull in itself.

 

[JK47]

All i know for sure about acrylic quality is to stay away from anything being mfg. in mexico... Altu Glas used to be one of the best but its harder to come by these days. As for making acrylic black i prefer to paint the outsides... if theres ever an issue with ur seams it makes it harder to reinforce/repair with the 1/8" black material on the inside of the tank as u cant see where the issues are and in turn have to almost reglue the entire permitter of the inside sheet. Most the time they do a half ass job glueing in the 1/8" sheets and its not actually sealed in just kinda "tacked" on. I actually have a buddys tank made in that fashion... water got behind the black acrylic...froze...and basically shattered the 3/4" acrylic underneath... an extreme case yes, but now its a nightmare to repair. if the one company only offers that, id just get a "plain" tank and paint the outside/bottom myself so u can still see ur seals/seams. I have one tank that came with a vinyl backround, so thats another option if u dont like paint. IMO the paint will also look better... black acrylic will show scratches and is kinda dull in itself.

Agreed with this 100%. My 500 was done this way with 1/4” blue acrylic (not by me) and I’ve repaired it twice. Major pain and not necessary. I prefer to paint as well or enjoy it clear. The floor being black has a tendency to show scratches like crazy. Painting the outside of the bottom looks like a smooth matte finish. If you can pull off getting it on top of the stand without scratching

The tank I just added the black acrylic to was done that way because the tank is already reinforced and it was a small patch to finish off the existing towers. I suppose I should explain what I did in that thread to clear any confusion.

 

[nzafi]

wednesday13 thank you for your quick feedback and gives me great insight.
JK47 I would not say it was due to confusion in your thread. I asked the question because another member on here had the same scenario and had the opposite perspective of they wanted the black background/bottom done like that.

Question on your comments.
1) Doesn't painting the back still somewhat hide the seam? I guess you can still see it through the tank itself
2) Does painting the bottom really give a nice black look to it? I painted the bottom of my glass 180 and while it did not look bad, it had this mirror effect that was annoying. From a scratching perspective I guess scratches just stand out more on black acrylic?
3) Instead of painting the bottom could I just put the tank on black painted plywood? I was looking to paint the plywood so it looks nicer than just plain.

 

[JK47]

1) Doesn't painting the back still somewhat hide the seam? I guess you can still see it through the tank itself

What do you mean by hide the seam? Which seam?

2) Does painting the bottom really give a nice black look to it? I painted the bottom of my glass 180 and while it did not look bad, it had this mirror effect that was annoying. From a scratching perspective I guess scratches just stand out more on black acrylic?

It gives an excellent matte black appearance. I posted some pics Monday in the stingray section. The floor I'm referring to is visible in that thread. It's a painted bottom with latex semi gloss.
Here: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/lucky-male.700538/#post-7895007

If you look closely in one of the pics you can see where the top and bottom panels come into contact before you realize it isn't a photo edit. That's an iPhone pic

3) Instead of painting the bottom could I just put the tank on black painted plywood? I was looking to paint the plywood so it looks nicer than just plain.

I paint the edges only. Painting all of the wood is possible but i've never pulled it off without scratching the paint on the wood. For some reason the tank is easier (for me)

 

[nzafi]

JK47 the painted bottom does look really good in those pics. Much nice than mine did. I guess a combination of the material and type of paint that was used.