Juvenile Dovii

[JTDillon]

Hello everyone. I recently joined the forum as I have moved from planted community tanks into cichlids. In particular, i have 2 juvenile dovii. They have just reached a point that i can clearly identify one as a male and one as a female. Probably around the 5 month age mark, still small though.

My questions refers to their behavior.

First off, they are extremely shy. So much so, when i put food in the tank they simply will not touch it. To prevent them from starving to death i literally set up a cardboard wall with thin slits in front of the aquarium. I hide behind the cardboard wall and can only watch them through the slits. Even then when one of them comes up front they catch a glimpse of my eyes and run. Damn theyre smart. My question is, should i remove all hiding spots and force them to be uncomfortable in order to teach them there is nothing to be afraid of?
People say theyre so shy because as younglings their parents eat them. Well, the same is true for almost all fish but ive bough Jag fry and convict fry and have never had a problem like this.

These juveniles are around the 4 inch mark...but the female is already doing the mating dance for the male. Has anyone seen this before at such a young age? He is not interested at all but it was just odd to me.

Lastly, i was curious about why they seem to pick a spot on the glass and bite at it over and over....i want to assume theyre fighting their reflection but specifically i am curious if theyre doing this out of stress? I currently have them in a 50 gallon aquarium with pool filter sand substrate. A marineland LED that isnt too bright. I have an aquaclear 110 and aquaclear 70. One filter has activated carbon, the other has purigen.

The tank is fully cycled and nitrites are 0ppm, ammonia is 0ppm and nitrate is usually around 10 to 20.

I do 2 60% water changes a week...sometimes 3 if i notice theyve missed a lot of food from feedings.

I just wanted to ask some experienced keepers what to do.... if i keep hiding behind cardboard in order to get them to eat they may never learn to be comfortable with people. I feel like them hiding is reinforcing their behavior because they attribute that to surviving. I think a big mistake that i didnt forsee was setting up their growout tank in thr far back guest bedroom where there is no traffic. I wish i had set them up in the living room where people pass by all day.

Anyone else ever feel they can tell when youve made eye contact with them? Ive never had a fish be able to tell...if i have my head facing the tank but am looking at the male, he looks like he is about to cry. If i keep my head facing him but move my eyes, in my peripheral vision i see his entire demeanor change and he doesnt try to hide as bad. After 30 seconds he will come a tad closer out of curiosity. When i make eye contact with him he darts back. Same with the female.
I just saw both of them swim right up to the glass because i am looking down at my phone to type this. I didnt move my head but only my eyeballs and they darted. You could argue that it could just be the movement but ive had my hand by the glass and have moved my fingers and played rock paper scissors without it scaring them anymore. So odd.

Even though theyre under 6 mo. Old they have so much personality and are so intelligent. Sometimes i pull up a dovii video from youtube and put the phone agaibst the glass... they gather around the phone and watch it like its tv hahaha.

So sorry about the rant. I sincerely appreciate anyone who is still reading this and has any info or experience about their behavior... like i said i know theyre not eating enough. Their stomachs are always concave and their growth has been extremely slow. Would adding some aquariun salt or something help with their stress?

Thanks again guys, so much, i look forward to being a part of the forums!!

 

[duanes]

They are shy (not because the parents eat they) but because at a small size they are easy prey and primary for birds, everything from king fishers, to egrets to eagles, all that are effective enough, that if only one from a spawn of 1000 make it to adulthood, that is a success.
Even in an aquarium, any shadow will "instinctually" be seen as danger until they are large enough to not be taken by the largest of birds.


Your 50 gal is now maxed as far as dovii go, to its about time to upgrade to a 250 gal, or larger, if you plan to keep them as adults. Mine outgrew in 150 gal in about 8 months (from 1')

 

[Gourami Swami]

^ good advice

Dovii are one of the most shy species at a small size, until adults. Which luckily does not take very long. What I might recommend in the mean time, is floating plants and dither fish. What kind of décor do you have in the tank? Could you possibly post a picture?
Floating plants give them a sense of cover. I also find that instead of taking out decorations to "force them out", you should add more decorations, so they don't feel they need to stay near their one cave or whatever they like. If you take them out, the fish won't suddenly overcome their fear, they will be more scared, and probably stick in the corner looking stressed.
Dither fish, will eventually be eaten, but that might not be the worst thing if you don't think they are getting enough food. Giant danios seem to be fast enough and big enough to last a while. I would quarantine them for a few weeks first in another tank to make sure no diseases. (10 gallon with sponge filter and a little media from your big tank will do, if you don't have a QT tank for them)
And I agree that you should think about an upgrade very soon. In the next few months they will outgrow the 50. Breeding is not unusual in that size range, and the chance of female getting killed in the small tank, is high.

 

[JTDillon]

They are shy (not because the parents eat they) but because at a small size they are easy prey and primary for birds, everything from king fishers, to egrets to eagles, all that are effective enough, that if only one from a spawn of 1000 make it to adulthood, that is a success.
Even in an aquarium, any shadow will "instinctually" be seen as danger until they are large enough to not be taken by the largest of birds.
View attachment 1314413
View attachment 1314414
Your 50 gal is now maxed as far as dovii go, to its about time to upgrade to a 250 gal, or larger, if you plan to keep them as adults. Mine outgrew in 150 gal in about 8 months (from 1')

Okay, well that seems odd that other cichlids from the same general areas and cichlids from similar habitats arent as shy as this. Im sure other cichids are at risk of being eaten by the same predators as dovii without having this kind of trouble. I appreciate your answer but it didnt do much to help the issue I am having with my cichlids not eating. Right now its been 4 days an neither has eaten.... I am at a loss of what to do. Take out the decor or let them hide.

I have a 150 tank cycling now. seems a bit silly to put two 3" fish into a 150 gallon tank just to hide undera piece of driftwood. Now when I feed them in this giant tank thee is even a greater chance food wiont even float past their hiding places ( the only time they eat).. Either way, its not done cycling yet.

 

[JTDillon]

^ good advice

Dovii are one of the most shy species at a small size, until adults. Which luckily does not take very long. What I might recommend in the mean time, is floating plants and dither fish. What kind of décor do you have in the tank? Could you possibly post a picture?
Floating plants give them a sense of cover. I also find that instead of taking out decorations to "force them out", you should add more decorations, so they don't feel they need to stay near their one cave or whatever they like. If you take them out, the fish won't suddenly overcome their fear, they will be more scared, and probably stick in the corner looking stressed.
Dither fish, will eventually be eaten, but that might not be the worst thing if you don't think they are getting enough food. Giant danios seem to be fast enough and big enough to last a while. I would quarantine them for a few weeks first in another tank to make sure no diseases. (10 gallon with sponge filter and a little media from your big tank will do, if you don't have a QT tank for them)
And I agree that you should think about an upgrade very soon. In the next few months they will outgrow the 50. Breeding is not unusual in that size range, and the chance of female getting killed in the small tank, is high.

I have a 150 cycling now. Just seemes silly to start any sooner to me

^ good advice

Dovii are one of the most shy species at a small size, until adults. Which luckily does not take very long. What I might recommend in the mean time, is floating plants and dither fish. What kind of décor do you have in the tank? Could you possibly post a picture?
Floating plants give them a sense of cover. I also find that instead of taking out decorations to "force them out", you should add more decorations, so they don't feel they need to stay near their one cave or whatever they like. If you take them out, the fish won't suddenly overcome their fear, they will be more scared, and probably stick in the corner looking stressed.
Dither fish, will eventually be eaten, but that might not be the worst thing if you don't think they are getting enough food. Giant danios seem to be fast enough and big enough to last a while. I would quarantine them for a few weeks first in another tank to make sure no diseases. (10 gallon with sponge filter and a little media from your big tank will do, if you don't have a QT tank for them)
And I agree that you should think about an upgrade very soon. In the next few months they will outgrow the 50. Breeding is not unusual in that size range, and the chance of female getting killed in the small tank, is high.

Yeah I have a 150 cycling right now. Seemed a bit silly to start any sooner to put 2 3" fish fry in a giant 150 tank just to hide under some drift wood pieces. Also, a larger tank just means more chances for food to not be seen because they only eat if a piece floats by their hiding spot. I will take some photos tonight. In my 50 gallon I have a piece of giant cholla wood that forms a Y shape cave that they can easily fit into in the very center. In the right side I have a pice of driftwood they can hide under in several places as well as 2 little clay flower pots. On the right side I have a flat rock with a few pillars so they fish can hide and dig under it as well as a large piece of drift wood and another cholla wood cave. I dont have anything floating though....the HOB filters provide small gaps of cover at the surface they seem to use a lot though.

I like the idea of floating stuff...Ill go get a few plastic plants to put in there. In the meantime, their stomachs look very concave. I think Im gonna turn the filters down on low and drop some sinking food in and leave it for a bit....I feel so bad for them. Seems like they would rather starve to death than be seen. When I do get a glimpse of them they literally cower in fear and look at me like theyre about to cry. Its cute but kinda pitiful as well....Thank you so much for the advice, I am going to get the floating decor today.

As far as food I have been trying Omega flakes, blood worms, baby guppies which I know they may be a tad young but they like them and I feed rarely, bug bites brand food, cichlid staple sinking pellets ( they wont touch them)....a lot of foods that people swear by are just garbage fish foods full of crap filler... no real ingredients. It drives me nuts people will recommend certain brands just because their fish eat them.

 

[vinod_uthaiah]

Dovii’s are initially shy .
2 things you can do for now
1. Remove all decors , let them get used to you and ignore irrespective of you feeding them or just moving about .
2. Let the decors and the hiding spaces remain , feed them and relax back on a chair and watch them without making any startling moves .
They will slowly get used to you.

They need more time than the other cichlids to open up.
Later they just don’t mind you , other way around , they will reach out to you during feeding time.

Mine too acted the same , then later they opened up .