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Piraiba pictures

I think you misunderstood or looked to deeply in to what Wes said. Bare in mind he is selling within the US. There's been many capas sold as filas. Due to the common mis-ID, he wanted to say his were true fila is all. You can't say something isn't a fila if it has the taxonomic traits or what we come to know as identification traits. There's variants of almost every species, wes gets in different variants of plenty. Never says one is any less of a species than another because that's just ignorant.

As far as the hybridization goes, can't say I've any knowledge on it.
 
moe214 said:
I think you misunderstood or looked to deeply in to what Wes said. Bare in mind he is selling within the US. There's been many capas sold as filas. Due to the common mis-ID, he wanted to say his were true fila is all. You can't say something isn't a fila if it has the taxonomic traits or what we come to know as identification traits. There's variants of almost every species, wes gets in different variants of plenty. Never says one is any less of a species than another because that's just ignorant.

As far as the hybridization goes, can't say I've any knowledge on it.
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Its not only in the US. We have the same problem too. Even if the argument is long settled in Asia among seasoned aquarists, capapretums nevertheless often remained marketed by irresponsible sellers ambiguously as "piraiba", which will of course stir misconception among the untrained eyes.

The point I'm raising isn't that we're doubting my piraiba is a true fila by taxon, but rather how its still promoted in Japanese/Asian market as distinguished from the other variants. Sellers need to make a distinction when marketing, so they utilise the tern "true" or "authentic" to show their premiumship. I've heard the term said firsthand. They're not actually disregarding the Peruvian Piraiba, which are still sold as filamentosum. Perhaps I was unclear. Its just the mechanics of our language.

While it is true that variation exists in all species, it becomes more significant when there is geographical isolation of such a large extent as in the case of piraiba, which are spread throughout South America. You won't get such observable differences with many endemic species (although I guess these differences in filamentosum are only noticeable in their juvenile stage).

Maybe my comment earlier may be a bit misleading, as what I'm saying is that it's the variation among filamentosum that fascinates me. Whilst calling one filamentosum more "true" than another just doesn't sit right, failing to acknowledge altogether that there is a difference among them is also fatal to the pet trade for many reasons.
 
In asia we've successfully hybridized (artificially) many species with sufficient taxonomic similarities, for example I own a Wallago attu × Wallagonia micropogon hybrid. Maybe I should post a thread on the guy, actually.

I can see Brachyplatystoma crosses happening, but then again I do not know of the limitations present in breeding hybrids.
 
I understand where your coming from more now. I was just speaking on wes, can't say Ik anything of over sea vendors and how they market. But with wes he puts "rare" if it's a hard to get fish. He says what variants or from what location he has as well. When I say variant I don't mean variation within a species that can be found in one location. I mean actual variants from different locations. So for him, I'm 99% sure when he said true it was because of the common misidentification.
 
Sunnyboy said:
In asia we've successfully hybridized (artificially) many species with sufficient taxonomic similarities, for example I own a Wallago attu × Wallagonia micropogon hybrid. Maybe I should post a thread on the guy, actually.

I can see Brachyplatystoma crosses happening, but then again I do not know of the limitations present in breeding hybrids.
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Any interesting and educational thread enriches our forum and hobby, especially if it is something novel :)

Although I am personally against hybridization, I prefer to keep my eyes open to what's out there.
 
Sunnyboy said:
Hi

From that other thread thebiggerthebetter cited here. After owning a rather obvious B. capapretum for a while, I got my hands on this guys. Its looking and behaving like a filamentosum, but I'd doubt that its the "real Mc Coy" filamentosum that fugupuff mentioned. Would love to hear input from you guys.

Both photos are the same fish I presume to be B. Filamentosum by the way.
View attachment 1323676

View attachment 1323678
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I believe that its a piariba from Peru most likely. The long wiskers are a good sign it is one. I have seen many capas come in and none have that. Piariba rather do and as they grow become shorter. Its even got the head shape as well. That snout and eye placement look just like mine. I have a 16"+ piariba from Suriname.
 
fishtankphil said:
I believe that its a piariba from Peru most likely. The long wiskers are a good sign it is one. I have seen many capas come in and none have that. Piariba rather do and as they grow become shorter. Its even got the head shape as well. That snout and eye placement look just like mine. I have a 16"+ piariba from Suriname.
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Thats cool! How long have you had it? Can you post pics so that maybe we can compare as a reference in the future?
 
thebiggerthebetter said:
That the fila that come from Peru could be artificially bred is a novel thought to me. Or any fila for that matter. I assumed (without any grounds) that all fila are wild caught.
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I've not seen Brachyplatystoma species being "farmed" in the same manner or volume that Pseudoplatystoma have been in South America. There are tons of places farming TSN species and hybrid versions of them with Leiarius or RTC's for food production though and pay lake fishing with some aquaculture mixed in as well.

I know we get Juruense and Tigrinus at small sizes and often times in near perfect condition with barbels/fins in tact but they still appear to be mostly seasonal which leads me to believe they are being wild caught generally and not captive bred. That said however the way a lot of the fish farming works in South America is with ponds tied directly into the river system for "filtration" so it could simply be the seasonality related to water levels on when the captive fish are breeding or harvestable from the ponds. To my knowledge acquiring small "Piraiba" whether they be Fila or Capa is not like catching small Dourada (Rousseauxii) where they are easily caught at certain points during their migration across Suriname. I cannot make the same assumptions for Brazilian or Peruvian specimens. I would also make the assumption that collecting small Brachyplatystoma of any type is easier and more widespread in Peru versus Suriname simply due to infrastructure and quantity of collectors operating in the region.

I know the table fare of the Brachyplatystoma species is considered lower than that of the Pseudoplatystoma species so it may not be so much that we don't have the means to produce them in aquaculture as much as it is lack of demand and slower growth rates providing smaller yields for their time investment.

Sunnyboy said:
It definitely seems like a possibility for me (but on equally as little ground) that they are bred, as I said earlier judging by the manner they are brought in. Suriname Piraiba are brought in at almost 9" individually, often in a somewhat damaged state (broken barbels and fins) whilst Peruvian Piraiba are imported at a small size in bulk, retaining perfect features which would've been unlikely if wild-caught at that size.

With little knowledge on how advanced Amazonian aquaculture is, I could only assume. We Thais are pretty well versed in breeding our local giant catfish species however, so its not out of the question for South America to be able to do so as well.
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The volume of them coming out of Peru I think could be related to what I mentioned above, more collectors available and more infrastructure. The way a lot of their aquaculture works they could be farm raising them in ponds tied to the river which would still create seasonal availability and the ability to provide small ones easily in relatively decent shape if they were seining them out and giving them some time to heal up prior to export. I just don't think there are a lot of breeders focusing on this if so simply based on the volume of them you see imported compared to that of say TSN or RTC. I would think it would be niche breeders if this was the case and not "commercial" because the $$$ just aren't there for them. Also with the better infrastructure there may be dependable collection points for juveniles that have become established over the years so the collectors can find small ones in schools at the right time of year. A complete assumption on my part again but seems reasonable based on the fact that I can find schools of baby channel cats or bullheads in the hundreds at the right times of year here in the states.
 
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