Washing Your Bio

[skjl47]

Hello; I am not just from the old school of fish keeping but am also just old. Before long I will be gone as will many of us who have the pesky habits that are now out of favor. So just outlive me.

Another thing is what some other fish forums do. I quit another fish site after a post or two had been deleted in full or in part because I posted notions that did not fit their chosen dogma. I like this site because so far such has not happened.

 

[RD.]

Jeff, I think what's escaping you is Matt quoting someone with a PhD, who most certainly did NOT give out any form of precaution. It was bolded in red, perhaps you missed that? The good doctor as much as scoffed at the notion that chlorine would be an issue, because I can only assume that in his mind everyone must be using the same tap water as he does to clean his sponges. (low chlorine residual)

If you felt that I was being selective in what I was responding to, I was. Some of what you are going on about with regards to cleaning media rigorously, or with a hose, or whatever, is a bit mind boggling to me. But if your bio-media is getting that crudded up, feel free to clean as you see fit. Is that better? I am only responding to chlorine/chloramine, and your comment regarding that was noted early on. I get it, you take precautions.
Do I need to address everyone individually? Relax, have another cup of coffee.


squint - all bacteria can become tolerant to various substances over time. Does the term antibiotic resistant bacteria ring any bells? It's not like I haven't read those types of papers/studies over the years. I would imagine Duane has as well. That doesn't equate to one taking their bio-media that has never been exposed to chloramine, and rinsing the b'jesus out of it.

 

[squint]

Nitrifying bacteria around the world has made a nuisance of itself consuming chloramine. You're not going to kill something by exposing it to more of its food source.

Another thing is what some other fish forums do. I quit another fish site after a post or two had been deleted in full or in part because I posted notions that did not fit their chosen dogma. I like this site because so far such has not happened.

The hobby seems to have decided that it already knows all knowable facts. Any contrary or new ideas must be wrong per the majority. This is a fantastic way to perpetuate misconceptions and permanently stunt the growth of knowledge in the hobby. Truth is subjective and it's decided by the majority. Science...meh. Nowhere is this more apparent than Reddit which is famous for downvoting facts. There's a name for this, the illusory truth effect.

 

[duanes]

Being an old geezer myself (and in many ways, set in my ways) I have been doing many things the same over the years out of habit.
I found one of Ted Judy's statements interesting in the video posted somewhere above. He said in order to keep a robust and young (effective) bacterial population alive in filters is important, and to do this, killing off some of the old geezer bacteria is a good move.
I could take offense at the sentiment, but it is also my feeling that allowing gunk to build up in filters and smother bacterial bio-film, is much worse than doing a regular cleaning with slightly chlorinated water.
I must admit I had to look up Poret foam, and found I have been using it for years, just under the term "stiff sponge media".
And have been hosing it off with tap when cleaning my pond filters with no adverse effects.
Chloramine however, came out of my tap in Wisconsin at only @ 1ppm. If it was coming out at 4ppm, I might reassess using the hose, on the chance it might take out all the good bacteria geezers and young viral ones alike.

 

[skjl47]

what's escaping you is Matt quoting someone with a PhD, who most certainly did NOT give out any form of precaution. It was bolded in red, perhaps you missed that?

Hello; this post is an example of what I do when I want to be sure that it is understood I am responding to specific statements of a specific person. I indeed did read the post by Matt about the PhD. Afraid in my posts I was more defending myself and a couple of like minded others, not matt and his post. I stayed mum about that particular post because I do not personally know anything about the professor nor do I know how he got to his opinion. I try to be careful but do sometimes get a bit lazy and take the general attitude anyone reading such a thread as this will read the entire thing so do not always repeat things in every single post.

Some of what you are going on about with regards to cleaning media rigorously, or with a hose, or whatever, is a bit mind boggling to me.

Hello; Interesting. My media gets dirty. My media gets coated with stuff. I tried the swish in old tank water for both types of media for a time after reading of it in this forum. After a time I decided it was not a practical method. I went back to throwing away the mechanical stuff and giving portions of bio-media a good rinse in a rotating schedule. I do apologize for having a method which works and does not fit in the way you wish.

Do I need to address everyone individually?

Hello; Entirely up to you as to how this is done. Much of the time I can follow who or what you are going on about, but clearly I did think you were going on about me when apparently it was about Matt. In the end I do not think it will make much difference in terms of understanding each other. I do get your points. I do however have a different opinion in this case.

 

[RD.]

Clearly there is nothing wrong with cleaning gunk off of bio-media, I have just personally never needed a blast from a hose to do that. lol The entire concept has always been to keep the outer portion of the media relatively clear to allow more 02 into the colony to keep it healthy & thriving. Moist, dark, and aerobic. Bio-bacteria 101

Nitrifying bacteria around the world has made a nuisance of itself consuming chloramine. You're not going to kill something by exposing it to more of its food source.

That's funny, as I stated previously I have already seen it done. Do you think I make this stuff up just to prove you wrong? lol

Nitrifying bacteria in water distribution systems feed off of the ammonia, not chloramine. Running ones media under a tap doesn't feed anything, at that stage it is in straight disinfectant mode, designed to kill bacteria. This why folks like myself typically use water conditioners that split the chlorine/ammonia bond, allowing the nitrifying bacteria to safely remove the resulting now non-toxic free ammonia. Someone with a tank full of plants, and lower levels of chloramine might be fine with just sodium thiosulfate. I believe that is what Duane used for years on his 1ppm chloramine residual. He also had a lot of plants in his tanks. Not everyone does.

You talk about misinformation, but unlike you I am speaking from experience. I have seen bio-filters mostly wiped clean, and entire tanks of dead fish, because someone wasn't careful when dealing with chloramine disinfectant residuals. I have 20+ years of hands on experience in this area. I didn't just read something on the internet, and attach a link.

So feel free to post more academic papers, but please make sure that in the future they are directed at the specifics at hand, in this case nitrifying bacteria in a closed sytems such as the average aquarium. If you can find a paper or study that demonstrates that these bacteria can withstand being exposed to higher levels of chloramine for extended periods of time, I'm all ears.

Otherwise the only misinformation being spread here, is by you.

 

[RD.]

LOL, Jeff, slow down amigo.

Hello; Interesting. My media gets dirty. My media gets coated with stuff. I tried the swish in old tank water for both types of media for a time after reading of it in this forum. After a time I decided it was not a practical method. I went back to throwing away the mechanical stuff and giving portions of bio-media a good rinse in a rotating schedule. I do apologize for having a method which works and does not fit in the way you wish.

It's all good. You can clean your media any manner that you like. I do not wish anything. lol Use whatever method floats your boat. OK? We all good now?

 

[skjl47]

LOL, Jeff, slow down amigo.



It's all good. You can clean your media any manner that you like. I do not wish anything. lol Use whatever method floats your boat. OK? We all good now?

Hello; Yes we are good, as long as neither of us gets to rule the world.

 

[dogofwar]

No offense... and please feel free to knock yourself out with a few more page-long posts... but I trust the advice of Stephan Tanner of www.swisstropicals.com . Here are some of his references: http://www.swisstropicals.com/references/

If he was spewing crap, which he's not, then these kinds of people wouldn't endorse him, his products and business... and the internet would be replete with "rinsing my Poret filter under a hose crashed my tank" stories, which there also are not.

I use Poret in several applications in my fishroom: tank dividers, as primary filtration, in overhead filters and boxes. I use coarse Poret and one of real benefits is that it needs to be cleaned as seldom as it does. A quick dip or two in a deep sink full of (tap) water or spray down from a garden hose (gasp!) is all that it takes every few months or so. Been doing it this way for years and have no reason to change.

If I had a nickel for every scientist that has been proven incorrect over the years, I'd be living on an island with Duane. lol I would assume that most people that use Poret have more common sense than the good doctor. I know a number of people who use, or have used Poret foam over the years, including a local discus breeder that ran 2,000+ gallons worth of tanks, and he never cleaned his foam under tap water. Never. Did he contact the doctor to tell him that he thought that was stupid advice? Not that I know of, he just went about tending his fish room like he had for several decades.

 

[squint]

squint - all bacteria can become tolerant to various substances over time. Does the term antibiotic resistant bacteria ring any bells? It's not like I haven't read those types of papers/studies over the years. I would imagine Duane has as well. That doesn't equate to one taking their bio-media that has never been exposed to chloramine, and rinsing the b'jesus out of it.

Where do you think the nitrifying bacteria in our aquariums comes from? You can't have populations of nitrifying bacteria living in drinking water systems around the world and a completely distinct population in aquariums. You think that bacteria that spread through a drinking water system will magically stop at the faucet and not enter aquariums?

The bacterial populations are the same and chloramine resistance isn't acquired. Stop making stuff up.