Getting my Jurs off live (guppies)

thebiggerthebetter

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In this November 2019 video you can see our only jur doing very well. In fact it has been doing beyond excellent for a long time and since that video too...




... until I decided to try and give it more room in the "peaceful" 4500 gal. In that tank it got almost eaten alive over a couple of days mostly by a pack of our 5 vulture catfish. These guys sense any tank mate in distress and attack them. This is after I pulled the jur out of the 4500 gal just in the nick of time as it was on the death's door from stress and injuries:

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It had gone on a fast for a few months after that and lost significant weight but about a month ago to my utter happiness it started feeding well again. Its mangled fins haven't grown back to their normal prior shapes but all healed up.

About 2 weeks ago I finally finished an 1800 gal tank and decided again to do better by the jur and try giving it a bigger home, this time peaceful, again. You can catch this moment in this long video around 19:05 minutes.




This was the last time it was alive and well. It stiffened up bit by bit and passed away a few hours later, just from being transferred into this new tank. No one so much as touched it. The water is the same too. It literally was the last straw, the last bit of stress, that broke the camel's back. This was a novel experience for me. Never happened before but clearly even a bit of stress can kill quickly and efficiently even after about 5-6 months after a fish survives a major stressful experience.

24" (if the tail was intact) at 5 years old:

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koltsixx

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Wow, I'm really sorry to hear you lost such a beautiful fish Viktor.

Can I ask? What was the original distress that triggerd the Vultures? I love Vultures but I was always hesitant about keeping more then one because of their feeding patterns in the wild. I figured their boldness would increase in a group plus I figured if one took an exploratory nip it'd make the others likely to follow suit and therefore regress into their more natural feeding patterns.
 
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Chicxulub

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Viktor that's heartbreaking my friend. I'm sorry for your loss.

The fragility of these fish is astonishing and disappointing, as they're so beautiful.

WIll you be attempting another?
 
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thebiggerthebetter

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How long did it take to get to 24"? Mine is nearing 18" now and wondering when he will slow down, about 1.5 yrs at this point.
IME it depends crucially on their appetite and hence comfort. It could be as quick as 3 years or as long as 5 years.

What was the original distress that triggerd the Vultures? I love Vultures but I was always hesitant about keeping more then one because of their feeding patterns in the wild. I figured their boldness would increase in a group plus I figured if one took an exploratory nip it'd make the others likely to follow suit and therefore regress into their more natural feeding patterns.
Simply the stress of transfer into another tank, nothing more. No water acclimation, it's the same. Just the stress of capture, transfer, and release into a new and unknown tank with new and unknown tank mates. It wasn't the first rehoming either, the jur had gone through 3-4 tanks by then over the years.

The predatory aggression overall and the pack behavior along the lines you describe have been growing in our vultures with size and age. They used to not be like that, which is another hidden rock under water, and it's gotten pretty bad in the past year or two. Vultures smell and taste the distress of fear in water, seek and find the source of it, and proceed to dismember it bite by bite starting with the fins and skin. Sometimes quickly and several vultures at a time, sometimes slowly and one at a time as was this case. This causes the new fish to release more fear hormones in the water and the effect snowballs sealing their fate. No matter how well I feed the vultures.

This occurs hit and miss with timid or average fish, like non-bottom-dwelling IDS and black ear shark catfish and bottom-dwelling Brachies. It wouldn't occur with Bagridae like Hemibagrus or Sperata or suncat it seems and other more assertive fish.

The fragility of these fish is astonishing and disappointing, as they're so beautiful.
WIll you be attempting another?
Yes, such evidence of fragility is the first in my experience. I have rehomed fish thousands of times and maybe hundreds of times they couldn't live in their new home and had to be taken back out. This is the first time where there is clear evidence of lethal and long-lasting effect of stress from such an attempt, granted it was a severe case that the jur got almost killed in the 4500.

Yes, I am jur-less yet again after 12 years of trying. Probably killed a couple dozen of them in total. Sure will try again because they are irresistible. One would hope I have learned enough by now to be successful in the future. It's just that some pathogen in my water killed my 9 small ones and it makes me very hesitant to try again, at least with the small ones. This pathogen does the same to other baby Pims, such as firewoods and TSNs and ornate pims for instance. Doesn't affect tigs. Go figure.

If no one donates a larger jur (which has never happened before anyway and is practically impossible to count on), I will try again with a group of smaller ones and if I lose them all or most, I will not try with the small ones anymore but will look for more mature ones, a foot or 1.5' or bigger as these seem to stand a better chance.
 

thebiggerthebetter

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