Skittish

[andyroo]

Greetings,
I've a ~7" juv silver who was, to recently, a bold & aggressive feeder including either waiting under or jumping to my fingers for the dropping shrimp. Moved him(?) from the calm 55 with angels to the active 100 with clown loaches, Am.eels & zamora and he became far more skittish, but was still eating. However, now skittishness has become manic when I approach the tank & eating (seems to have) stopped. Scale loss & nose bruising, getting gaunt, so I'm getting a little worried. Also a little heartborken that my fish is unhappy...

Thoughts? What might calm?
Water change? Should be fairly good/new, but I'm dragging my feet to this weeks change as he is soooo skittish.
I've reduced cross-surface flow & gone back to live roaches & lizards, but not seeing in the tummy.
Surface structure - plants, wood?
Currently the tank's not lit - would specific surface lighting change how he sees me approaching?
Remove him to another tank? - i'm out of tanks, this was to be his grow-out to 12' for pond relocation.
Remove clown loaches to another tank? This is already the plan, but I'm not sure they're the primary issue as eels & zamora are everywhere after dark. I'm also loath to do a major disturbance while this fish is such a freakshow, at least until he eats something.

Thanks, Andrew

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Scale loss, nose bruises, and skittishness are the telltale signs of jumping and hitting things, lids, walls, scape, pipes, etc. and probably point to the aro getting attacked or merely experiencing an unwelcome approach or anything else in between... perhaps startled and trying to flee by what the arowana do best - the jumping.

I'd doubt the loaches and woodcat zamora, but of all listed I could only think of eels as the culprits, that the eels bother your arowana badly at night, as the night belongs to them (the catfish and loaches are active at night as well).

I'd move the american eels (how big?), or move the aro back to 55 gal. At 7", it has heaps of time to keep growing in the 55.

The aro is not afraid of you per se, just lives in a terrorized state of body and mind, hence is afraid of everything, including its own shadow...

 

[andyroo]

He only jumps/freaks to/for me, as I approach the tank. All injuries I'm pretty sure I've witnessed. I'm sitting across the room now - no stress from eels nor general background commotions & rummagings (nap-time), but the aro's staring at me & doing the glass-rub/bite thing. I've got a string tied to a clam suspended above the water, to pull & drop the clam when fish is nearby & calm. Let's see...
Alt. I go get the last of my swordtail supply, just to keep fitness through this phase (touch-wood).

55 now houses a client's alb-irid-shark grow-outs that'd be on the menu; they'd be on the menu for the eels also (~12 & 14")
Might be able to move aro to the 240, but the fem.silver's in there now. He beat her pretty badly early-on, and he's now double her size.

 

[Fishman Dave]

If my arro is anything to go by he has really poor eyesight with no light on and changes his feeding, generally not seeing altogether it or missing catching it.
I would add some kind of lighting. Equally, to settle mine into a tank with active catfish until he got established I have left the light off during daylight hours (about six to eight hours where he is) and then put the light on as the tank dims for eight hours so essentially there is some light for 14 - 16 hrs and the “nighttime” fish only get 8-10 hrs of dusk/ darkness to be active or harass him.
Worst case you could move both arro, putting the female where he is or with the pengasius and him where the female is ?

 

[andyroo]

Dave - mine have always done a lot of missing-attacks, though this fellow is/was pretty spot-on most of the time. The big girl in the pond outside my second-story bathroom window can see me through the slatted window(!!!) and rises to surface & turns towards, hoping I'll throw her something. When I do throw her something she does miss it 50% of the time... though this might be laziness or otherwise part of the plan as she hunts dragonflies... successfully. Pond-side she knows me from my wife/gardener/dog, though from the bathroom I expect it's just movement.

I put a down-light overhead and that seems to have done a bit of good on the going-crazy, maybe by making it more difficult to see out. I'll find a live roach or two tonight to keep condition (touch-wood) until he gets his $#!t together (touch-wood).

 

[Fishman Dave]

I did think when you wrote that “he was now double her size” that this was meant the other way round, knowing about her in the pond in your other thread.
Glad to hear the light has done a little to help and really hope he comes round soon. Who would think keeping fish was full of so much stress and worry!
Good luck

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Right, who would think!? Haha...

I've got a string tied to a clam suspended above the water, to pull & drop the clam when fish is nearby & calm. Let's see...

Haha... the things we do for our fish, when they don't cooperate!

Pond-side she knows me from my wife/gardener/dog...

No way!? Tell us more, please!

On the topic of sudden unexplainable skittishness - perhaps no help but a mention of possibly the same phenomenon: posts #22 and 23 in my thread https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/my-silver-arowana-in-4500-gal.688112/post-7949343

I remember seeing the rare rubbing and opening mouth at the front glass by our arowana too but I don't recall anything else connected to it. I guess it came and went on its own, whenever it happened.

The only time our arowana mis-hit their feed is when they have drop eye. The worse the DE, the worse the aim. Other than that, I'd say arowana eyesight is mighty sharp even in twilight, I don't get how it might not be because they rely on eyesight to hunt for a living in and out of water.

Well, if all the usual boxes are checked (including that the water quality is great and stable), perhaps time to think outside the box.

- Perhaps someone scares your aro when you are not around - pets, kids, strangers.

- Perhaps the only difference between former 55 and this 100 gal is the tank position in the room and some weird or scary reflections occur in the panes of the 100 gal that didn't in the 55 gal. Changing the direction of lighting, or blocking the back and the side tank panes, or if you have to, temporarily even the front pane too, or half of it, etc. might be worth experimenting with.

- Perhaps that idea with the blinding light (not blinding bright but blinding as in hiding what's behind the light) that you had just mentioned can be applied to the front glass - direct the lamp at the front glass such that the aro cannot see you or your shadow coming and going.

 

[andyroo]

- A house-sitter or a cat... maybe.
- IME face-rubbing tends to be when either hungry or cramped. He'd only be the former, & not for lack fo food.
- DE could be part of it, sure. I also wonder if there's a lunge&bump element, like a barracuda but without the hacking-teeth.
- Water change pending, though it will be further trauma to the fish which has me dragging feet. Water's not old, but it's time. Water age/quality in the previous smaller tank was never an issue, ate like crazy regardless.
- Interesting, will hang a sheet before adding bugs/frogs and see if he plumps-up a bit. I'll also use sheet when I do water-change.

- wondering if the RTS gave him grief, as he seems very "stuck" to the surface -vs- his usual & the usual for the species, even as a surface-dweller. He's about twice the RTS' size and I don't see interaction btwn this fish and anything but an occasional attempt to shadow by the ABK, also somewhat smaller & unobtrusive.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

- A house-sitter or a cat... maybe.
TBTB: Some cats are quite fond of fish tanks, some jump on them and sleep on them. Can't say much for the house-sitter. These critters are more complex and unpredictable.

- IME face-rubbing tends to be when either hungry or cramped. He'd only be the former, & not for lack fo food.
TBTB: You probably meant "latter" not former. In any case, IDK what to make of it. It could also indicate nervousness perhaps?

- DE could be part of it, sure. I also wonder if there's a lunge&bump element, like a barracuda but without the hacking-teeth.
TBTB: If the DE coincided with the switching of the tanks, then there could be a correlation of DE with the changed behavior.

- Water change pending, though it will be further trauma to the fish which has me dragging feet. Water's not old, but it's time. Water age/quality in the previous smaller tank was never an issue, ate like crazy regardless.
TBTB: Right, I remember you asked even if it was a gender indication, that the males maybe had a better appetite.

- Interesting, will hang a sheet before adding bugs/frogs and see if he plumps-up a bit. I'll also use sheet when I do water-change.
TBTB: The view blocking must be long-lasting / permanent in my understanding and a time must be given so the fish gets accustomed to the new surrounding, in or out of the tank. Any change stresses fish and takes time to adjust to, sometimes quick, sometimes long, sometimes never, like switching to this new tank.

- wondering if the RTS gave him grief, as he seems very "stuck" to the surface -vs- his usual & the usual for the species, even as a surface-dweller. He's about twice the RTS' size and I don't see interaction btwn this fish and anything but an occasional attempt to shadow by the ABK, also somewhat smaller & unobtrusive.
TBTB: Are these new tank mates? You only mentioned the eels, the zamora, and the clown loaches before. Also, IDK what these abbreviations mean.

 

[andyroo]

RTS = red-tail shark, sorry. Also African knife & a couple of filament barbs. Knife is the only fish that I've seen paying the arowana any attention, seems to want to socialize without aggression.

Update: added floating & surface plants & floating bamboo chunk which has calmed & reduced idiocy & seems to be eating a little here & there. With this I would suggest he's "out of the woods" (touch-wood), as he killed & mangled a gecko but didn't eat over the weekend (likely a bit big), though still not happy.
Water change is still pending with busy week(s) but high/next on the agenda.