Arowana and red tail catfish

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

I don't own or plan to own either of these species, but I think this should be pointed out nonetheless. Came across this video on YouTube:

That arowana is probably about the same length as the red tail catfish, and despite not being able to swallow the whole thing, the red tail catfish was still seemingly able to fit the arowana's head in its mouth and thrash it around until the arowana died.
This would be even worse with adults of both, since red tail catfish are around 140 cm, but arowanas (African, Asian, Australian, and South American) are only 70-100 cm.
So based on this video, I'd like to offer my 2 cents to keepers of either who want to try this that it will most likely end with a dead arowana even if the arowana is similar in length, and even more likely if they are at actual adult sizes.

 

[tlindsey]

who want to try this tha

Unfortunately this will continue some people have to learn the hard way.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

Yes, unfortunate as it is. I just hope the rest of people will keep theirs separate.

 

[xenacanth9]

?
There goes that idea

 

[dr exum]

Almost wish these and Pacu would go on a controlled list or needing a special permit to own as one needs a 600g tank to live solo -
sadly fish farms churn these out in the masses -

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

Almost wish these and Pacu would go on a controlled list or needing a special permit to own as one needs a 600g tank to live solo

Agree, and I'll add should only be available by special order from the aquaculture farms. That part helps prevent dozens of red tails and tambaqui sitting at the pet store and outgrowing the sale tank by the hour because no one with a permit or large enough tank showed up to buy them.

In regards of tank size, not even that is quite enough, perhaps unsurprisingly. You'd need a minimum 8.4 meter by 2.1 meter footprint tank for an adult 1.4 meter red tail catfish (rules of thumb by Practical Fishkeeping and Seriously Fish).
That would come out to several times the volume of a 2271 liter unless it was much too shallow for the catfish - as an example, given a 1.4 meter depth, it would be 24,696 liters.

Tambaqui need a similarly big tank, owing to their 110 cm adult size. With the same rules of thumb it would be at least 6.6 meters by 165 cm in footprint, and due to their deep bodies, they need a deep tank - 165 cm with equivalent criteria to the width.
That comes out to just shy of 18,000 liters.

sadly fish farms churn these out in the masses -

Yep. But in terms of aquaculture purposes, the same things about them that make them such a problem for anyone who has too small a tank (grows very big and very fast) make them excellent food fish.
Because they get so big so fast, they can be marketed in large amounts quickly, and there's always plenty for consumers.

 

[fishdance]

Sad day when large fish species are getting discouraged from being kept on MFK.

Don't most monsterfish keepers run large tanks?

The flip side on 8m+ tanks is that several RTC's can be kept together comfortably. It's nice to see them swim, play and school together. Very social interactive species.

 

[Fishman Dave]

I for one am not against folks keeping redtails. And I don't go with the PFK tank size guide as a rule, just a guide, because no one in their right mind would buy a tank that size at the same time they bought a 3" baby redtail , that's not how fishkeeping works and never has been in my mind. It's all about having a plan, and a realistic one. Tank size can grow as fish grow, or rather ahead of fish growing, to ensure the tank is always better than adequate for the next 12 months.
Videos of redtails with arrowanas in their mouths abound because of a lack of common sense in the main part and a lack of experience unfortunately. The sad day is that many keepers nowadays are here to keep the big exciting fish having never kept any other types before. I applaud their will to keep these monsters and some do an excellent job, providing for their needs really well. Unfortunately, some do a job just as poorly and then for some really strange reason (to me at least) go on to post a video of how poor a job they did online for all to see. They may believe someone will learn from their mistake, but in reality all they really achieve is for people to advise not keeping these big fish altogether.
How many people post videos of their Pim pictus cat with a guppy hanging out of its mouth? I would suggest that 100 times more fish under 6" are eaten by other fish under 6" every year in fish tanks than accidentally by our monsters, it's just that no ones posting this online, there's no interest in it.
The internet is a wondrous place to learn things, but knowledge and facts are different things, and knowledge is certainly not experience.
Hopefully owners learn from these mistakes and that knowledge can then be experience and avoided in the future in multiple situations.

 

[xenacanth9]

Well said.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

Sad day when large fish species are getting discouraged from being kept on MFK.

Oh, it's not discouraging by any means. It's just a good way to tell apart those with the space for these fish from those without it.
I am with Fishman Dave that I don't have any issue with people necessarily having redtails, and I more or less agree with this:

The trade of these fishes should not necessarily be prevented, but the sale of thousands of juveniles each year represents a serious animal welfare issue and they should be reserved for those who can afford to maintain them correctly.

Consumers, feel free to buy big fishes but only if you possess the resources required to do so!!!

Stunted growth means stunted lives — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

Don't most monsterfish keepers run large tanks?

Large? Of course.
Almost 25,000+ liters and 8+ meters long? Some, certainly, but not the majority.

The flip side on 8m+ tanks is that several RTC's can be kept together comfortably. It's nice to see them swim, play and school together. Very social interactive species.

Very interesting, I thought they were solitary and territorial with their own kind (just like a certain other, much smaller red tailed fish known for that behavior).

And I don't go with the PFK tank size guide as a rule, just a guide, because no one in their right mind would buy a tank that size at the same time they bought a 3" baby redtail , that's not how fishkeeping works and never has been in my mind. It's all about having a plan, and a realistic one. Tank size can grow as fish grow, or rather ahead of fish growing, to ensure the tank is always better than adequate for the next 12 months.

I can absolutely see where you're coming from here, and I think you're spot on about the importance of a realistic plan.

But, with that said, I stand by the importance of having the tank from the get-go as opposed to multiple upgrades. TankAddict makes a pretty good point about why it's recommended to have the tank before you buy the fish:

Can I keep redtail cats in a large fish tank until I build the pond?

Nope. No. Never. Terrible idea. Here’s why: things never go as planned. Either have the pond built prior to buying one or don’t buy one.

Because a.) redtails can grow up to an inch per week b.) most people never get around to it and c.) by the time you desperately need one, you’ll likely be out of cash and out of time and your fish will suffer for it.

Redtail Catfish Care: No, You Shouldn't Own One - Tank Addict

If you were ready to own a fish capable of eating a small dog, you'd know it. But here's everything you want to know - including how to rehome them.

tankaddict.com

I was the same way at first. I planned to get a 9000 liter indoor pond built in my basement when I started out with my clown loaches and pictus catfish 3 years ago. That 9000 liter pond was supposed to be for a pangasius catfish I also had at the time, but (unsurprisingly) the plans for the pond did not go through and the pangasius ended up dying. And all I had at the time was a 240 liter grow-out, so the pangasius wasn't the only fish the existing tank was insufficient long term for.

At present, even though I did manage to upgrade with my duo of 473 liter tanks, I ended up still not having anywhere near enough for pangasius catfish. So from my own experience as well, from the time I felt the same exact way, I can concurr with TankAddict.

Now, I'm certainly not saying it's always impossible to do as you described (considering I was able to do so with my clown loaches and pictus catfish, and so many other MFKers have done so with their fish).
But there's obviously a notable portion of fishkeepers for which it is impossible to have the big tank/pond built for that red tail catfish (or other big fish) in time, since (as I'm sure you know) it's not a short process yet most big fish grow very fast.

I think the rest of what you said is nonetheless very valuable input (considering this thread wasn't about me not recommending to keep red tail catfish, but about not recommending to mix arowanas with them).
The mistake made here was judging a red tail's ability to eat a tankmate based on length of the tankmate instead of girth of the tankmate, which let the red tail catfish kill the arowana by attempting to eat it because of that lack of girth. This can hopefully intertwine with some experience to ultimately give red tail keepers a good idea of what is and isn't safe for mixing.