Astronotus orbicularis vs. Crassipinis.

[Backfromthedead]

I'm sure this has been covered before, but I would like the most current consensus.

I see both of these species advertised by different vendors (without mentioning them by name) as "bumblebee oscar".

Which one is the "true" ""bumblebee oscar""? Is there contention that these two species are actually the same and some haven't settled on the name? Or is there a catch location complication?

 

[CrazyPhishMan]

i dont believe orbicularis is a valid species name. there are several yet to be described but i believe that is in synomny with occelatus.

I believe crassippinni is the bumblebee, its on TUIC and i trust them more than most importers for proper identifying of species

 

[Backfromthedead]

i dont believe orbicularis is a valid species name. there are several yet to be described but i believe that is in synomny with occelatus.

I believe crassippinni is the bumblebee, its on TUIC and i trust them more than most importers for proper identifying of species

I haven't ordered from the new management yet, but Jeff rapps was always the be all end all to SA cichlid Qs for me. Not to say kevin isn't up to the task, but I'm not just gonna hand him that rep cause he took over the name.

Besides, I've seen TUIC offer orbicularis as well, so by your logic there's no debate as to specificity. Several other very credible vendors as well.

 

[CrazyPhishMan]

I saw TUIC offer Orbicularis in like 2016 or 2017- we can use the way back machine to check his old lists. Kevin has been friends with Jeff for a long time and he, Mo and Jeff used to always be trading fish back and forth. he's a good guy and knows his stuff.

I tend to consider the cichlid room companion as the source of truth and the list orbs are being a synonym.

 

[Hybridfish7]

Orbicularis is a synonym of crassipinnis
As it stands, astronotus consists of ocellatus, crassipinnis, and mikoljii

 

[Backfromthedead]

Orbicularis is a synonym of crassipinnis
As it stands, astronotus consists of ocellatus, crassipinnis, and mikoljii

While I appreciate your resolute manner on the topic, ive just heard too much in recent times concerning the differences of all these species (including orbicularis) to relegate them to include each other. Hell, since ive been keeping cichlids orbicularis and crassipinnis have always been differentiated for whatever reason.

If any one is the odd man out here and synonymous with one of the others, it's mikoljii, which is a much newer taxonomy at least to my ears.

For years I've always heard that orbicularis were closer related to ocellatus but displayed slight differences in fin and body proportions.

In the same time period ive always seen the smaller growing, rounded profile, vividly colored and spotted tiger oscars displayed and sold as crassipinnis.

And at various times I've seen and heard both varieties called "bumblebee".

 

[Kevin@TUIC]

"As it stands, astronotus consists of ocellatus, crassipinnis, and mikoljii"

This is correct. also, A. miklojii was formally described just a few weeks ago. Several other will likely be announced very shortly.

 

[Backfromthedead]

"As it stands, astronotus consists of ocellatus, crassipinnis, and mikoljii"

This is correct. also, A. miklojii was formally described just a few weeks ago. Several other will likely be announced very shortly.

Hmmm...so would you say orbicularis=mikoljii?

 

[Kevin@TUIC]

" Hmmm...so would you say orbicularis=mikoljii?"

nope.
A. cf. orbicularis = A. crassipinnis
A. cf. rubrocellatus = A. ocellatus
A. cf. ocellatus = A. miklojii

Several others that are currently(correctly identified as) A. cf. ocellatus are in the works and about to be formally described/announced.
Some populations out of Peru (which have been banned for collection and exportation for the last 2 years) we may get more species out of one day but since they are now protected in Peru it will be a long while.

 

[Hybridfish7]

Hmmm...so would you say orbicularis=mikoljii?

Orbicularis is a synonym of crassipinnis

" Hmmm...so would you say orbicularis=mikoljii?"

nope.
A. cf. orbicularis = A. crassipinnis
A. cf. rubrocellatus = A. ocellatus
A. cf. ocellatus = A. miklojii

Several others that are currently(correctly identified as) A. cf. ocellatus are in the works and about to be formally described/announced.
Some populations out of Peru (which have been banned for collection and exportation for the last 2 years) we may get more species out of one day but since they are now protected in Peru it will be a long while.

Looking forward to this, not sure what it is about new names that excites me so much. Looking forward to the new amphilophus and kronoheros as well.
I assume the Bahia reds are among them?