Monster Cichlids: Fish to Tank Ratio

[Backfromthedead]

Hello experienced Monster Central/South American keepers!

I am planning a future tank. I would love to get a realistic understanding of how many 12-16 inch American Cichlids can be housed in 300 gal tank? 600 gal tank? 1000 gal?

Is there a rule of thumb from your personal experience? Does the number of fish/fish inches follow a linear or exponential scale as the tank size increases.

My concern is not water quality, my concern is enough space for the fish to be happy.

Assume that 1) The tank would be massively over filtered by 3x-4x, 2) handled by an experienced fish keeper with weekly deep cleaning at a minimum, 3) the tank is only large cichlids - a Flowerhorn, Viejas, Oscar, Jaguar, Texas, Green or Red Terror, etc. (Please remain calm - I would be cutting/adding to that list base on suitably… just trying to give you a clear idea I do NOT mean sevrums or anything <12”).

Does having multiple or only one of a type impact their behavior or need for space?

Thanks for your help!

I don't understand the "not concerned with water quality" part, sort of a silly thing to say when you're asking for advice here lol.

But in my mind, the correct answer is: however many you can keep healthy and happy in your tank. This is not just about tank size but also the species youre stocking (oscar much different than jaguar cichlid) filtration setup, maintenance routine, and most importantly the experience of the fishkeeper in keeping these fish.

i could try and set up a tank like youre suggesting and probably fail horribly but there are a lot of cichlid specialists here who could probably pull it off.

 

[jjohnwm]

And ONE Vieja need 240 gallons?

The OP specifically mentioned wanting the fish to be "happy", which I interpret as meaning healthy and stress-free, able to move around and behave as naturally as possible. Plenty of Vieja species can hit 14 or 15 inches, and I've seen a few specimen that exceed that. I'm not a cichlid guy, but the single Vieja I kept (sold as a synspilum, but could have been anything...) easily hit 15 inches by his third year. A 15-inch Vieja is a big, wide, tall, heavy, brutish, relentlessly-aggressive fish.

How big do you think his aquarium should have been? As he grew and aged, his tankmates dwindled...some were simply murdered overnight, many others I removed to prevent that eventuality. That was in a 360-gallon tank; I threw in the towel and re-homed him once that tank was reduced to three fish total: the Vieja, a big buttikofferi and a big managuense. That was a high-stress tank, always on the knife-edge of violence, and it continued that way for several years. The only way those fish were "happy" is because each of them dreamed and schemed and planned on being the sole survivor. It embarrasses me to think back to how silly I was trying to make that work in that tank.

That was 30+ years ago, and that tank completely cured me of any pipe -dream for a big happy family of aggressive monster cichlids. I'm sure that is achievable, given a big enough tank; I don't know what is big enough, but I dang sure know that a 100, or a 240, or a 360 is not it.

 

[Gajzila]

The OP specifically mentioned wanting the fish to be "happy", which I interpret as meaning healthy and stress-free, able to move around and behave as naturally as possible. Plenty of Vieja species can hit 14 or 15 inches, and I've seen a few specimen that exceed that. I'm not a cichlid guy, but the single Vieja I kept (sold as a synspilum, but could have been anything...) easily hit 15 inches by his third year. A 15-inch Vieja is a big, wide, tall, heavy, brutish, relentlessly-aggressive fish.

How big do you think his aquarium should have been? As he grew and aged, his tankmates dwindled...some were simply murdered overnight, many others I removed to prevent that eventuality. That was in a 360-gallon tank; I threw in the towel and re-homed him once that tank was reduced to three fish total: the Vieja, a big buttikofferi and a big managuense. That was a high-stress tank, always on the knife-edge of violence, and it continued that way for several years. The only way those fish were "happy" is because each of them dreamed and schemed and planned on being the sole survivor. It embarrasses me to think back to how silly I was trying to make that work in that tank.

That was 30+ years ago, and that tank completely cured me of any pipe -dream for a big happy family of aggressive monster cichlids. I'm sure that is achievable, given a big enough tank; I don't know what is big enough, but I dang sure know that a 100, or a 240, or a 360 is not it.

100, 240 and 360 gallona for ONE Vieja is not it???? Bro, sorry, but then you are bad aquarist. I need change forum.

 

[jjohnwm]

100, 240 and 360 gallona for ONE Vieja is not it???? Bro, sorry, but then you are bad aquarist. I need change forum.

'Bye! ?

 

[GolemGolem]

Well there is the old debate, but the OP doesn't want ONE Vieja, they want a bunch of big chiclids and not a lot of violence presumably.

 

[Gajzila]

If anyone in this world gives me a video of holding just one pair of vies in a 360 gallon, i'll cut off my right finger. To build a 360 gallon aquarium and some of the fish are not happy? please... How do they live in pet shops? When I see where all the fish are kept and how, I feel like freezing. Now in my 125 gallon tank I can't successfully keep one pair of Vieja for life. With a good filter, original (tetra, sera...) food and natural habitat... What are we talking about here....

 

[Gajzila]

'Bye! ?

Bye bro! And go and buy aquarium of 360 gallons and put some guppies... You will doing good job! hahahhaha

 

[Gajzila]

Amateurs!

 

[Cichlids-r-beasts]

Well there is the old debate, but the OP doesn't want ONE Vieja, they want a bunch of big chiclids and not a lot of violence presumably.

Which is basically impossible, it’s always a gamble with big aggressive SA/CA cichlids. That’s why the more experienced I get, the more I find myself keeping species only tanks, instead of mixing large aggressive cichlids together.

Can it be done? Maybe, I’d say you’d have a one in 100 chance of keeping EVERY single fish in there happy and healthy.

People don’t realize just how big a 12-16 inch fish is, and the amount of waste they produce. Multiply that by let’s say 6, you have six 12-16 inch highly aggressive cichlids all battling for dominance, and you KNOW at any point in time one of these fish could snap and decide it doesn’t want tankmates, then I’d say you’d need a 600g (at minimum) with a ton of hiding places to establish territories to keep every fish from murdering each other.

 

[duanes]

My answer was to the posed question of a proper size tank for a "community" of large cichlids scenario.
Not really about just 1 Vieja.
I have been able to keep compatible pairs of adult Vieja in tanks as small as 150 gallons, but.....
the rub can come into play, when a community of large, diverse, often competing cichlids is concerned, where someone tries to cram differing types that may not work together in a small a space (in comparison to nature), and where hundreds of gallon may in reality be too small, or where a 1 square block section of river isn't possible for that combination without friction.
I have spent enough time diving with cichlids in nature to know that combining certain types together in even thousands of gallons can be brought with problems, and where certain species are totally driven off, off or killed.
Looking at some of the ragged looking uropthalmus in the video I took in the million gallons of Cenote Azul might be an indication.
Azul imovie edit