Monster Cichlids: Fish to Tank Ratio

ryansmith83

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I could keep a St. Bernard in a one-bedroom apartment for life, but it doesn’t mean it’d thrive there, or welcome a bunch of other dogs into its space.

Imagine clowning yourself by trying to justify keeping fish in smaller tanks, while calling experienced hobbyists “amateurs” for advocating for larger, more natural living conditions that would improve the lives of the species we keep.
 

Gajzila

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Ok. Guys... I love you too. 125 gallona is small tank for 2 fish(male and female Vieja). I undertand and agree wit you! You win!
 
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DMD123

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Ive tried lots of combinations in my 8ft, 300 gallon tank with multiple large cichlids and had success for a period of time. I had five of the calmer fish like, pearsei, red bay snook, regani, heterospila, bocourti, silver dollar dithers. I even had a nice set up with five big amphs at one time. But one thing that always seemed to happen is that something disturbs that fine balance and it all goes to hell. One fish may get sick, it gets challenged and then the whole tank dynamics gets out of whack. Been down this road too many times to do it again. I usually end up with one dominant fish when its all said and done. So now I tend to keep one large focus fish with personality like a Pearsei for example, then fill in with some schooling fish which currently are my bala sharks and then I have two bichirs. This is a super calm peaceful tank with no issues. Just passing along my experience trying to keep a community tank of cichlids, of course this was in a small 8ft, 300 gallon. maybe things would have been better in a 10-12' 600+ gallon but Ive never had the resources to test that one out.

Aggression aside the tank maintenance was a nightmare. I run 3 Fluval FX6's on my 300 and I honestly do not miss the multiple large water changes per week or cleaning out those filters constantly. Of course if I was looking at the 600+ gallon realm, likely would be looking to sump it instead. Anyway, just my 2 cents on it, lol
 

TheViciousBitch

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With a tank full of monster cichlids i'd have thought water quality would be a primary concern.

Given the nature of big boisterous cichlids, and the fact you seem to want to keep lots of them, and keep them "happy" too, then I think you are looking at a huge aquarium in order to give them all their "territories", otherwise the bickering and in house fighting associated with these fish will be rife.
I agree - I simply mean I know how to keep the water clean, with a heavy bio load. I’m simply saying that aggression and comfort is what I’m unsure of.
 
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TheViciousBitch

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Ive tried lots of combinations in my 8ft, 300 gallon tank with multiple large cichlids and had success for a period of time. I had five of the calmer fish like, pearsei, red bay snook, regani, heterospila, bocourti, silver dollar dithers. I even had a nice set up with five big amphs at one time. But one thing that always seemed to happen is that something disturbs that fine balance and it all goes to hell. One fish may get sick, it gets challenged and then the whole tank dynamics gets out of whack. Been down this road too many times to do it again. I usually end up with one dominant fish when its all said and done. So now I tend to keep one large focus fish with personality like a Pearsei for example, then fill in with some schooling fish which currently are my bala sharks and then I have two bichirs. This is a super calm peaceful tank with no issues. Just passing along my experience trying to keep a community tank of cichlids, of course this was in a small 8ft, 300 gallon. maybe things would have been better in a 10-12' 600+ gallon but Ive never had the resources to test that one out.

Aggression aside the tank maintenance was a nightmare. I run 3 Fluval FX6's on my 300 and I honestly do not miss the multiple large water changes per week or cleaning out those filters constantly. Of course if I was looking at the 600+ gallon realm, likely would be looking to sump it instead. Anyway, just my 2 cents on it, lol
Thank you! Your 2 cents is priceless to me. Yes, that is also my experience with fish keeping - no matter the research and planning I do - the individual fish end up fixating the reality.

I hear you - if I can’t go 500+ it is best to start with the assumption of one monster or just a few with a plan to re-home when it goes to hell.
 
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TheViciousBitch

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A random rule of thumb ratio I use, is each adult cichlid needs 10 gallons of water volume per inch.
This is "not" using only its length, but adding together L + W + H.
So as an example ....
a single 14" inch Vieja, that is 10" tall, and almost 4" wide needs minimum of about 240 gallons.
add a 15"L managuense that is 6" tall and 4" wide, the tank needs another 250 gallons.

Of course none of these calculation take in the instinctual territoriality that either cichlid might display as maturity sets in in a mixed community, and all Central American cichlids display different degrees of territoriality (aggressiveness or going wacko over night (as is often posted here), is sometimes used erroneously substituted for territoriality when it sets in) at different stages of life .

And as exolucius mentioned, water quality would be a major player in the scenario.
Although filtration plays a somewhat partial roll, most filtration doesn't take care of nitrate (water changes are practically the only solution).
I consider the efficacy of most commercial filters to be vastly over rated.
And consider nitrate as simply an indicator of other deleterious substances in the water.
Nitrate is not just the bad single entity, but we don't have the ability to test for all the others.
So for whatever amount and size of large cichlids kept, in whatever volume of water, its the management of nitrate and its nasty allies that controls the population density.
I like to keep nitrate on or below 5ppm, to avoid HITH disease, and the other health issues, we see mysteriously pop up in the disease section.
This is excellent advice. Thank you. I definitely should have phrase my water quality point lol. I have plenty of experience with keeping water quality in check, and would be doing a large sump. I experienced very frustrating nitrate spikes in my original African Cichlid. I found a mix of house plants that can thrive with roots in the water can cut my nitrates enough. I do live with them around 10pm.

Thank you for the equation. This is the kind of advice I need. It is easy to watch 100YouTube videos, but if I’m not a professional Breeder, with 100 tanks plumbed on the same system, wanting multiple species to coexist… I just don’t have a good sense for these monster fish.
 

TheViciousBitch

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Welcome aboard
Definitely depends on the species.
There are cichlid species that one or a pair that will claim a 300 or 600 gallon easily.
Also agree with esoxlucius esoxlucius about water quality.
Thanks, I should have clarified, I obviously care deeply about water quality - but I know how to keep an overstocked tank properly balanced, over filtered, and safe/clean. I just am clueless about the social aspect of massive fish and if the 600 gallons I see on YouTube with 20-30 big boys are just “overstocked so monitor water quality like you have OCD” or “overstocked and animal abuse”
 
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TheViciousBitch

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My house is 60 square meters, so for 2 Vieja's I would have to evict my wife and children from the apartment in order to adopt them. hahahahahaha... You are KING! :D
Sounds like a fair trade most days, I’m sure ?

do you have any 12+“ fish and advice for me?
 

TheViciousBitch

Feeder Fish
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Sep 5, 2022
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It is not just the size of your tank, it is the size of your filter. A 300 gallon (what ever that is in litres) with a tiny filter will not support the same load as a 300 gallon with a 250 sump.
Agreed. Any tank size I settle on (96”’ to 144” long, 36” to 48” wide, 24” to 36” tall) will have a massive sump. Honestly, I just find tank maintenance on a sump easier than multiple Fx6 filters. I also want to be able to consider UV.

basically - if I’m going to spend 8-12k on a custom tank, stand, and sump… I want to know what I can keep healthy and happy, long term
 

TheViciousBitch

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Sep 5, 2022
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As usual, a lot of the replies seem to come from people who don't keep fish alive long enough to understand how big they are as adults. Just as an example, a 14-inch Vieja represents probably 6x - 8x the biomass of a six-incher...and it gets to that size within a couple or three years.

So...is it possible to keep some of these monsters "for life" in aquariums that are, by any reasonable standard, too small? Of course it is. After all, "for life" can be re-worded as "until it dies"...even if that happens long before it should or would have if proper conditions had been provided.
I completely agree with you. I had a serious aggression issue with a Tomato Hap in my mixed African cichlid tank. Instead of surrendering him to the LFS, I started a second tank for just him and got him a few female sp. 35. If I were to give him up, he would just end up in another mixed tank to the same violent, awful end. I felt responsible for his life for the next 5+ years, so I created a perfect world for just him.

That is a great point about the exponential biomass load. I assume that anything with monster cichlids is an exponential equation, hence my questions. I know how to keep water clean based the bio mass, I know when to re-home/surrender based on a specific fish personality getting out of control… I just don’t know anything about 12+” cichlids.

I have learned a lot from my own fish keeping.Yes, the advice you see online and on YouTube is totally valid. But every tank I have kept successfully, provided one or more exceptions to the rules for that fish/tank/food/plant type.

I just don’t want to spend a year planning a 500 gal, that should have been a 1,500 gal. Or a 1000 gal, that could have been 440, to keep my stocking list.
 
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