just a request of photos of hybrids between flowerhorns, red devil, jaguar, blood parrot, convict, rainbow, green texas and red terror.

[cailenew]

hello, I'm just creating a spreadsheet for hybrids between these species. I have a few examples from other threads, mainly nicer ones but I would appreciate any photos of the bad hybrids more than nicer ones. just so I don't give a false narrative within the spreadsheet that all hybrids are beautiful and healthy.

the other reason I am creating this is that...
A) I own these species and would like any hybrid offspring to be healthy - essentially without short bodies or cleft lips/ gill deformities. I don't desire hybrids but I am not a cichlid purist, I do appreciate and agree with their points that current desirable hybrids are non-viable outside captivity for their hybrid splendour (being a severely invasive species like the flower horn) and for their inbred traits such as the parrot's cleft lip and gill deformities.

B) I volunteer in a fish shop in the UK and the owner has started getting more central american cichlids in and housing them together in the short term. so knowing bits and bats about how traits can be passed down within the family group will help me give him a more appropriate price for any mongrels/ hybrids.

C) I have 2 male flowerhorns with red eyes and from dragon lines (4 in total)... so chances are one of my female pure cichlids will take a shine to one and babies may occur - and I just want an idea of what my babies may end up looking like (i have two kamfa's[one has more red in him than the other], Thai silk that was sold to me as A grade and a red dragon.) all look male although one of the kamfas may be female.

overall anything is appreciated as I'd just appreciate any photos - I attached what I have thus far and general conclusions from it the green boxes are essentially an origin species and I didn't see a point in getting an image for it, yellow is essentially no record found from what I've seen - ergo why I'd appreciate anyone helping filling in any gaps. (oh yeh and the reason some areas have gaps going down but not going across is just that I couldn't find a definite example of hybridisation from where I sourced the image from. e.g found on the breeding page but contains the wrong hybrid or is poorly labelled.

 

[cailenew]

oh yeh I'm dyslexic too so I colour stuff to help process information this is one part of a 5 sheet document so providing photos will help me develop it and ill most likely upload the document at a later date once it's completed/ print it off for my work placement before I leave it for him to look at for reference.
I edited the post to include the list of resources I have thus far.

 

[Azedenkae]

Have you had a look at this thread: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/...d-hybrid-example-thread-load-warning.491862/? I tried to check, seems like you have not, but am not super sure. It is early in the morning for me lol so eyesight's not 100% yet.

Also, some of your green texas crosses seem more like texas crosses than green texas crosses?

By the way, one way to redo your chart is to have male vertically and female across (or vice versa), which can be interesting.

As for your hybridization projects, especially since you desire healthy fish, one thing I would also recommend is doing F1 crosses and select F2 carefully, as in F2 a lot of issues caused by chromosomal misalignments can be fixed. It can be done better by crossing F1 and a F0, but that may too significantly skew traits towards a particular parent, which you may not want to happen.

 

[cailenew]

thanks, I'll look now at the URL. I'm new to texas's so Ill update it now. I'm guessing its just the greens have more green iridescence as a pose to pale? ive seen the url before and sampled a few photos into my table.

as for the backcrossing I'd prefer not to breed parent to offspring or F0 to F2 - the closest I'd really go is cousin to cousin.
this is mainly due to the occurrence of lethal genes - I just don't want to potentially breed in any detrimental traits. however, I can observe that from my stocklist and offering's overall health between two parents and remove a parent which produces sickly fry from the tank.

 

[Azedenkae]

I'm new to texas's so Ill update it now. I'm guessing its just the greens have more green iridescence as a pose to pale

They are two entirely different species. Texas cichlids are Herichthys cyanoguttatum, green texas cichlids are Herichthys carpintis.

as for the backcrossing I'd prefer not to breed parent to offspring or F0 to F2 - the closest I'd really go is cousin to cousin.
this is mainly due to the occurrence of lethal genes - I just don't want to potentially breed in any detrimental traits. however, I can observe that from my stocklist and offering's overall health between two parents and remove a parent which produces sickly fry from the tank.

That is certainly true, however backcrossing is also the fastest way to resolve a lot of chromosomal misalignment issues sooner rather than later.

 

[Hybridfish7]

Rainbow hybrids get the shape and pattern from the rainbow. Haitiensis hybrids (if you'd like to add them) get the colors of haitiensis. The peeling gene in amphilophus is dominant, so most amphilophus hybrids will peel. Otherwise they get shape. Texas hybrids get pearling, convict hybrids get barring, and jaguar hybrids get shape, like you said. Also your flowerhorn/Texas hybrid is a salvini. I don't think rainbow x flowerhorn has been done, some flowerhorns just happen to have red eyes. Probably a trimac gene. Only rainbow hybrids I've seen or heard of were convict x rainbow, haitiensis x rainbow, and texas x rainbow.

 

[cailenew]

thanks for the info - ill be honest I like the black nasties colouring but I've heard a few horror stories about them. however... i may acquire one just a female rather than a male. as for the salvini thing ill correct that. the rainbow thing intrigues me but I won't force breeding unless my current pair in a tank by themself doesn't lay eggs in the next two weeks (a dull flower-horn male and a convict female - the plan is to try to get a few hybrid girls to cross to my nicer flower horn males. - I know breeding flower-horns gives a mixed bag in regards to fry anyway so if I go in thinking I'll get muts I may be surprised.

if im honest 'frank' (named after Frankenstein's monster) is a nice flowerhorn for the fact he greets me and so does the female convict he's in with and I've started training him to come to eat from my hand so that's the other reason I want to give them another two weeks to try to have a go at it. i had some success getting my parrot and flowerhorn bob to lay eggs but 60% moulded and then bob ate the wrigglers. like the nob he is but thats the other reason i want to try getting girls.

also sorry for the gap in replys.

 

[Hybridfish7]

what?

 

[cailenew]

what?

sorry i thought id posted a question, i honestly cant remember what i posted

 

[cailenew]

quick update to this, good news one of my Male flowerhorn (bob) is fertile and paired off with my female blood parrot(Boadicea), they are about 3 months old plus change and this is an old photo (only old by 21 days).
bad news since this bob was put back in the communal tank and they rejected him overnight and i woke up to him filleted but alive and he passed roughly 4 hours later in a 180L hospital / empty grow out tank running connected to the communal tank (just replace sump with a hospital tank) he lives on through his kids and Boadicea is back in the communal but accepted. (no fish were bigger than Bob and he was 7 inches at time of passing and i miss the little bugger dearly(he reminded me of a old flowerhorn i used to have))
i plan on keeping the females from the batch and selling the males with the exception to this being a single fry that looks like it has more Amphilophus in it then the rest because its more gold/orange than the others.
ill keep updating this post with updates as to what they look like gradually and any big stuff with the batch