All Fish Dead

[jjohnwm]

I had to Google the Fritz 360 product as I don't use any of that type of thing. It's not a "chemical" per se; it's a dormant live-bacteria culture that is added as a "sludge remover" or aquarium cleaner. Their website specifically indicates that it is safe to use in conjunction with all other Fritz products, and detail that the heterotrophic bacteria that comprises it are "very safe even if overdosed". It sounds very similar to a product called, I believe, Rid-X which is intended to perform the same function in septic systems. RD. has a fascinating long-running thread on this stuff, well worth a read.

The idea of dechlorinator killing fish is something that I have heard before. There's at least one dechlorinator on the market (Prime?) which has instructions that actually recommend increasing the maximum dosage by five times in certain circumstances! Long and short, it would take a truly massive overdose to have a negative effect. It's also very difficult to believe that a major manufacturer would miss such a blatant danger in the simultaneous use of two products that are literally designed to be used in pretty much the same circumstances, i.e. new tank and/or new water. You won't find a more distrusting, more cynical or more "Show me!" person than me when it comes to manufacturers' claims and hyperbole...but I recognize that they need to protect their good name to keep their customers coming back. Both of these products are marketed as regular-use additives that they want you to continue buying ad infinitum...that would be tough to do if using them together, despite the instructions indicating this to be a safe practice, starting killing off tanks.

A comment made earlier and worth noting is that gar are air-breathing fish who derive much or most of their oxygen from atmospheric air; they would likely be the last to succumb to oxygen-depleted water even if that were the problem, rather than a cichlid like the Oscar. I grew up in an area where gar were very common; they live in places that few other fish can tolerate. The fact that the gar died and the oscar lived, to me, is a strong indicator that oxygen depletion is specifically not the culprit here.

Your buddy who runs the fish shop likely has a wealth of experience and knowledge...or maybe not...but either way, he can't really be expected to answer a question like this with "Gee...beats me!" as that would cast him in a very negative light. But, a lot of the time, there is simply no easy way to say for certain what happened.

I hope we get a few more opinions and suggestions from those reading this thread.

 

[Fishyboy🐟🐟🐟]

Theyvstat

I had to Google the Fritz 360 product as I don't use any of that type of thing. It's not a "chemical" per se; it's a dormant live-bacteria culture that is added as a "sludge remover" or aquarium cleaner. Their website specifically indicates that it is safe to use in conjunction with all other Fritz products, and detail that the heterotrophic bacteria that comprises it are "very safe even if overdosed". It sounds very similar to a product called, I believe, Rid-X which is intended to perform the same function in septic systems. RD. has a fascinating long-running thread on this stuff, well worth a read.

The idea of dechlorinator killing fish is something that I have heard before. There's at least one dechlorinator on the market (Prime?) which has instructions that actually recommend increasing the maximum dosage by five times in certain circumstances! Long and short, it would take a truly massive overdose to have a negative effect. It's also very difficult to believe that a major manufacturer would miss such a blatant danger in the simultaneous use of two products that are literally designed to be used in pretty much the same circumstances, i.e. new tank and/or new water. You won't find a more distrusting, more cynical or more "Show me!" person than me when it comes to manufacturers' claims and hyperbole...but I recognize that they need to protect their good name to keep their customers coming back. Both of these products are marketed as regular-use additives that they want you to continue buying ad infinitum...that would be tough to do if using them together, despite the instructions indicating this to be a safe practice, starting killing off tanks.

A comment made earlier and worth noting is that gar are air-breathing fish who derive much or most of their oxygen from atmospheric air; they would likely be the last to succumb to oxygen-depleted water even if that were the problem, rather than a cichlid like the Oscar. I grew up in an area where gar were very common; they live in places that few other fish can tolerate. The fact that the gar died and the oscar lived, to me, is a strong indicator that oxygen depletion is specifically not the culprit here.

Your buddy who runs the fish shop likely has a wealth of experience and knowledge...or maybe not...but either way, he can't really be expected to answer a question like this with "Gee...beats me!" as that would cast him in a very negative light. But, a lot of the time, there is simply no easy way to say for certain what happened.

I hope we get a few more opinions and suggestions from those reading this thread.

They stated that the outside of the house was recently painted, fumes could have accumulated in the tank and killed them
Gar as I stated breathe air and it could have breathed in those fumes
Gars and Oscar’s would be the last to go
This is a possible theory but I am unsure of how plausible it is

 

[jjohnwm]

A house "recently" had the exterior painted...and somehow the fumes find their way inside and abruptly kill all the fish in a tank, coincidentally timed simultaneously with a water change? Sounds very unlikely.

But that's the rub; all possibilities suggested so far seem pretty unlikely.

 

[dr exum]

safe killed some of my

 

[Fishyboy🐟🐟🐟]

A house "recently" had the exterior painted...and somehow the fumes find their way inside and abruptly kill all the fish in a tank, coincidentally timed simultaneously with a water change? Sounds very unlikely.

But that's the rub; all possibilities suggested so far seem pretty unlikely.

yea seems unlikely but a thought

 

[ken31cay]

This is obviously grasping at straws, but it definitely sounds as though some type of toxin made its way into your tank during the water change...and in fairly significant quantities also, to have caused such an abrupt and total die-off.

In the cases like this that I've seen, after investigating long enough it eventually became clear that a toxic substance made contact with the water and was the cause. I'm sorry to see this because the same thing has happened to me in the past. Try not to take it too hard.

 

[Jon M]

jjohnwm - I don't expect him to answer the question at all really. There is no way of knowing exactly what happen and I understand his help is simply hypothetical.

I think it's worth mentioning multiple other tanks all got wc that day and they are all perfectly fine. The X factor is 1. the 360 fritz, and 2. the hose. I know it's hard to see in a picture, specially with the lights out, but I swear it's murky/cloudy af still this morning....

 

[Panosian32]

I had a similar issue with overdosing last week, albeit on a much smaller scale in my 75g where I have a bunch of Mbuna that I’ve kept for years. In my ignorance I didn’t know about Prime’s impact on oxygen levels, so I dosed fairly liberally after a big water change. I also filled directly from an outside spicket (which I connect my python hose to), which for some reason seems to have lower oxygen levels than other locations in my house. After every water change all the fish come out of the rocks and seem to gasp for air for a bit, and then all is fine after a couple minutes. I normally don’t mind because it’s a fun chance to count everyone.
Anyways, this most recent time it was obvious that something had gone wrong (presumably bc I used far too much Prime). Within minutes I noticed fish swimming wildly, or slowly just floating to corners. Kinda like I was watching them suffocate. Pretty horrible to watch as a fish keeper. Unluckily, I had a filter blockage at the same time, so nothing breaking the water but a small air stone. I quickly started trying to break the water with my hand for a couple minutes, added a back-up HOB filter, then cleaned my canister out and got it up and running again. Luckily, I noticed it so all my adult fish survived, but even in that short time I lost 8 or so adolescents. Pretty disheartening, but no doubt in my mind that had I not noticed it (totally normal by the way as I normally just shift focus to changing water in other tanks in other rooms), I know I would have lost everybody.
Sorry for long post, but thought it might be helpful to compare situations to see if you noticed any similarities and to know you’re not alone.

 

[LukeOscar]

what if we are looking at this from the wrong veiw point. in world war 2 aerospace engineers in the army wanted to add armor to planes returning. he wanted to increase armor in areas that planes were returning with bullet holes. but someone spoke up and said, places that have holes are where the plane can get hit and still return. its where planes do not have bullet holes that need more armor. its those spots that probably get hit and dont return.

that being said maybe the Prime or safe wasnt mixed well and did not do its job when added after the water change. did you use an older bottle. was it a new bottle? its not uncommonn for these big companies to have bad batches. just a thought.

 

[Night Ranger]

Years ago when I was caring for fish the talk was making sure the water temperature during the water change was within 1 degree of each other. If you had a drastic water temperature difference and changed a lot of water then you could have thrown the fish into thermal shock including any beneficial bacteria in the sump. Killing off the bacteria in the sump could explain the cloudiness in the water also if you are changing out a lot of water you are defiantly changing the chemistry of the water. All of this combined could be enough to kill off the fish.