Journey with the Odo aka Black Nasty

Peckoltia

Dovii
MFK Member
Dec 22, 2005
701
317
102
G'day

Just a quick summary of my journey with the Black Nasty cichlid over the last 12 months. From the top, I am no expert with this fish having only kept them 12 months. These are just my own observations and experiences to date.

12 months ago, I bought 3x 2" juveniles. All 3 developed a serious nuchal hump very early on - something that none of them showed later on, which I have never seen in a cichlid prior, normally this develops later in life and is associated with spawning. The humps on my now males are fairly unremarkable at ~12".

The three originals were grown out with a group of Blockhead Cichlids and other various bits and pieces, they never showed any remarkable aggression outside what you would expect from any other CA cichlid. 2 excluded the third and went after it - assuming the two that coexisted were a pair and the 3rd was an excess male, I sold the 3rd and kept the 'pair'. These two ended up both being males that happily coexisted until recently when I split them apart (for breeding purposes, they still never showed aggression towards each other). Happily getting along in a 70gal at 10-12"ea. I thought this to be fairly unusual behaviour for this species - two males of this size peacefully coexisting in a tank that is admittedly on the small side.

In the meantime I had been growing out a small female that I had picked up knowing that I'd like to give spawning crack. I gave each male its own 70, and added the female to the smaller of the two males tanks with the use of a divider. I kept them divided (they could see through the egg crate). I removed the divider after about two weeks, the introduction was totally uneventful, with only minimal signs of aggression between the two to speak of, if anything the female was the aggressor towards the much larger male.

About a week after introduction I added a large flat stone and did a couple of 50% cold water changes, the females vent quickly dropped and the next morning I woke up to a spawn on the glass floor of the aquarium next to the rock I had placed (typical). Even with eggs, the male remains non-aggressive towards me and his mate (thankfully) I have spawned other CA's including Dovii and with the presence of eggs/fry my males would always try break the glass to defend their progeny from me. This male Black Nasty, shows non of that to date. The female is non-aggressive towards her mate, however will go the glass when I get close.

As of the time of writing this the eggs are about 60 hours old. Approximately 15-20% have fungus. The remaining ~80% look like they are developing well and hopefully they will hatch within the next 24 hours. I wasn't expecting anything being a first spawn, so if i can get a batch of fry that will be a great result.

I will upgrade the tanks of the pair and the spare male in the coming months to something larger.

A summary of my keeping notes;
- I have admittedly let their tanks get too cool during the season change 22-23C. They showed no ill effects. I have also kept them at 30C + (as is often recommended). I have noticed little change at either temp. Current spawning temp is 29-30C.
- I have never seen any of the legendary aggression associated with the species, not even close.
- While I have only kept 4 individuals to date, I have lost none to bloat. They have been fed on a 100% diet of ottohime pellets. I have offered cut fish and prawn at times, which they ignore.
- Spawning was fairly uneventful, some general 'cleaning' of the tanks surfaces, with very little shaking or spawning behaviour.
- Males colour change into spawning colours is subtle, darker markings become slightly more prominent and white now shows a blue hue. Females colour change is far more dramatic to a mostly black body with white face.

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tlindsey

Silver Tier VIP
MFK Member
Aug 6, 2011
24,182
25,533
1,660
Ohio
G'day

Just a quick summary of my journey with the Black Nasty cichlid over the last 12 months. From the top, I am no expert with this fish having only kept them 12 months. These are just my own observations and experiences to date.

12 months ago, I bought 3x 2" juveniles. All 3 developed a serious nuchal hump very early on - something that none of them showed later on, which I have never seen in a cichlid prior, normally this develops later in life and is associated with spawning. The humps on my now males are fairly unremarkable at ~12".

The three originals were grown out with a group of Blockhead Cichlids and other various bits and pieces, they never showed any remarkable aggression outside what you would expect from any other CA cichlid. 2 excluded the third and went after it - assuming the two that coexisted were a pair and the 3rd was an excess male, I sold the 3rd and kept the 'pair'. These two ended up both being males that happily coexisted until recently when I split them apart (for breeding purposes, they still never showed aggression towards each other). Happily getting along in a 70gal at 10-12"ea. I thought this to be fairly unusual behaviour for this species - two males of this size peacefully coexisting in a tank that is admittedly on the small side.

In the meantime I had been growing out a small female that I had picked up knowing that I'd like to give spawning crack. I gave each male its own 70, and added the female to the smaller of the two males tanks with the use of a divider. I kept them divided (they could see through the egg crate). I removed the divider after about two weeks, the introduction was totally uneventful, with only minimal signs of aggression between the two to speak of, if anything the female was the aggressor towards the much larger male.

About a week after introduction I added a large flat stone and did a couple of 50% cold water changes, the females vent quickly dropped and the next morning I woke up to a spawn on the glass floor of the aquarium next to the rock I had placed (typical). Even with eggs, the male remains non-aggressive towards me and his mate (thankfully) I have spawned other CA's including Dovii and with the presence of eggs/fry my males would always try break the glass to defend their progeny from me. This male Black Nasty, shows non of that to date. The female is non-aggressive towards her mate, however will go the glass when I get close.

As of the time of writing this the eggs are about 60 hours old. Approximately 15-20% have fungus. The remaining ~80% look like they are developing well and hopefully they will hatch within the next 24 hours. I wasn't expecting anything being a first spawn, so if i can get a batch of fry that will be a great result.

I will upgrade the tanks of the pair and the spare male in the coming months to something larger.

A summary of my keeping notes;
- I have admittedly let their tanks get too cool during the season change 22-23C. They showed no ill effects. I have also kept them at 30C + (as is often recommended). I have noticed little change at either temp. Current spawning temp is 29-30C.
- I have never seen any of the legendary aggression associated with the species, not even close.
- While I have only kept 4 individuals to date, I have lost none to bloat. They have been fed on a 100% diet of ottohime pellets. I have offered cut fish and prawn at times, which they ignore.
- Spawning was fairly uneventful, some general 'cleaning' of the tanks surfaces, with very little shaking or spawning behaviour.
- Males colour change into spawning colours is subtle, darker markings become slightly more prominent and white now shows a blue hue. Females colour change is far more dramatic to a mostly black body with white face.

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duanes duanes
 
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troublesum

Aimara
MFK Member
Dec 28, 2007
632
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Astoria, NY
My experience with them was totally different I got 6 of them at 2in from TUIC then after about a year the largest male grew to 12in he killed everyone except 2 larger females that were about 7-8 inches he paired up with 1 female they killed the other female once she was dead then he killed the last female. They was in a 125 i sold him for $200 now I'm dealing with these Red Terrors
 

Kevin@TUIC

Aimara
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Community Vendor
MFK Member
Great write up and they look fantastic. I have collected and spawned this species many times over. N. hatiensis will begin to successfully spawn at a small size. males about 3" and females about 2.5". Something I've observed probably hundreds of times is that the females initially develop a nuchal hump at a very small size very often confusing even myself for a dominant male. Often its the females out pacing the males up to about that same 2-3" size. Then the males catchup and obviously surpass the females. They will be extremely prolific from that small size until about 12" or so and then IME they slow down quite a bit.
In the wild ive moslty observed them picking through the detritus. Seemingly just eating algae/plants and the snails that come along with the algae & plants. I have never yet witnessed a full grown hatiensis in the wild. 6-8" would be large and 12" in the wild would be huge. At least in the rivers I've seen them in. In our aquariums we know that they get gigantic. Since 2019 I've offered this species from Rio Haina, Rio Nigua and I am currently staring at a wild juvenile pair from 2022 trip to Rio Jaguey near Algarrobo (Rio Acapulco). Even a captive strain from unknown provenance. All three from the known rivers are more streamlined with not much of a nuchal hump. The captive strain is taller bodied and develops a large nuchal. Could be from selective breeding or a theory is the lake version is more robustly built than the riverine populations, not unlike Parachromis dovii. The further south the warmer and saltier the water gets. The current fish i have were collected pretty high and north where water is a little cooler and fresh. This species is found in full brackish water that is very, very warm and also in cooler mountain streams. This species seems to enjoy some salinity and warm water. Especially when young. The water in Haina was dirty, as in raw sewage (yuk). I have also witnessed and I know many customers have sent emails asking about that when new fresh water is added to the aquarium the species tends to nose-up and stay at the top like something is wrong. I've seen it thousands of times. My guess is they do not like sudden changes to water conditions that would normally not bother a fish. Not unlike an oscar sulking at the bottom of tank during a water change. Aggression seems to be individual. I've kept and seen kept large adults in a 1,000 gallon aquarium with the fish over 12" and no issues at all. Ive seen 4" killers too lol. My current wild male is small but is a complete psycho! flips upside down & smashes the tank much like we associate with Amphilophus citrinellus. The female is super chilled out. The male is almost too aggressive to spawn with her. I keep this pair separated by divider. All others i have been able to keep together with no issues for years.
Fantastic show species and in my personal top 2 favorite fish of all.
 

Peckoltia

Dovii
MFK Member
Dec 22, 2005
701
317
102
Great write up and they look fantastic. I have collected and spawned this species many times over. N. hatiensis will begin to successfully spawn at a small size. males about 3" and females about 2.5". Something I've observed probably hundreds of times is that the females initially develop a nuchal hump at a very small size very often confusing even myself for a dominant male. Often its the females out pacing the males up to about that same 2-3" size. Then the males catchup and obviously surpass the females. They will be extremely prolific from that small size until about 12" or so and then IME they slow down quite a bit.
In the wild ive moslty observed them picking through the detritus. Seemingly just eating algae/plants and the snails that come along with the algae & plants. I have never yet witnessed a full grown hatiensis in the wild. 6-8" would be large and 12" in the wild would be huge. At least in the rivers I've seen them in. In our aquariums we know that they get gigantic. Since 2019 I've offered this species from Rio Haina, Rio Nigua and I am currently staring at a wild juvenile pair from 2022 trip to Rio Jaguey near Algarrobo (Rio Acapulco). Even a captive strain from unknown provenance. All three from the known rivers are more streamlined with not much of a nuchal hump. The captive strain is taller bodied and develops a large nuchal. Could be from selective breeding or a theory is the lake version is more robustly built than the riverine populations, not unlike Parachromis dovii. The further south the warmer and saltier the water gets. The current fish i have were collected pretty high and north where water is a little cooler and fresh. This species is found in full brackish water that is very, very warm and also in cooler mountain streams. This species seems to enjoy some salinity and warm water. Especially when young. The water in Haina was dirty, as in raw sewage (yuk). I have also witnessed and I know many customers have sent emails asking about that when new fresh water is added to the aquarium the species tends to nose-up and stay at the top like something is wrong. I've seen it thousands of times. My guess is they do not like sudden changes to water conditions that would normally not bother a fish. Not unlike an oscar sulking at the bottom of tank during a water change. Aggression seems to be individual. I've kept and seen kept large adults in a 1,000 gallon aquarium with the fish over 12" and no issues at all. Ive seen 4" killers too lol. My current wild male is small but is a complete psycho! flips upside down & smashes the tank much like we associate with Amphilophus citrinellus. The female is super chilled out. The male is almost too aggressive to spawn with her. I keep this pair separated by divider. All others i have been able to keep together with no issues for years.
Fantastic show species and in my personal top 2 favorite fish of all.
Hi Kevin

Thanks for the response - great to read your observations in the differences between wild populations.

My pair's spawn got to the wriggler stage. At which point the female was seen moving the newly hatched fry to another area of the tank. Over the next couple of days the number of wrigglers slowly dwindled until their was none left. On a couple of occasions I watched the female move wrigglers only to not spit out the odd one. I can only assume she ate them all over a few days. The male had no interaction with the spawn. Not too concerned being their first spawn, hopefully they get it right in the not too distant future. I am not that keen on stripper her of her fry/brood (not until they become an issue for the pair anyway) as I think their is nothing better than watching a pair of cichlids care for their brood, especially a species as special as this.

The female has quickly conditioned right back up and her appetite has been ravenous to say the least. Her vent has been prominent over the last 12 hours and I presume that another spawn in imminent.

I am at odds as what to do with the spare male. He is a magnificent fish, however he is quickly outgrowing the 60gal that he's in alone. I have a 700gallon display with mixed large fish - including half a dozen large bumblebee Oscars. The tank is pretty rough and tumble - I am considering adding him to the tank to see how he goes. I know that his gentle demeanor could quickly vanish and he would need to be removed quickly before he harms any inhabitants or the stress of the move could potentially cause bloat? Water parameters are comparable.

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Peckoltia

Dovii
MFK Member
Dec 22, 2005
701
317
102
Update - I added the spare male to my 700 gal display. It was a pretty short lived experiment - started flaring up and was scaring some of the Arowana so out he came.

The pair are now on their second spawn after the female ate her first spawn at the wriggler stage. Fry are now free swimming and appear to be doing well, feeding and growing well.

Spawns were less than 2 weeks apart and she looks like she may spawn again soon - look like they will be a prolific pair.

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duanes

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I spent about 5 years working with them.
The adults seem less sensitive to changes in temps than fry.
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They would go thru typical testing rituals before each spawn, but never do damage.
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My main pair shared a 6 ft tank with no aggression to each other over the years, and raised many spawns, so many that I had a hard time getting rid of fry, to the point where I was giving them away..
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