Another sketchy sounding one to me on nitrates

[jason longboard]

I know Im a long time keeper, but I keep coming across guys like this, and Ive not been keeping up last 5 years or so with any new discoveries.

I also know lots of you bash all the youtube guys but I know lots of them are good too, and I take lots of stuff with a grain of salt.


Anyways, but what are your thoughts on this post?

Personally I feel we should be trying to keep the numbers low as possible, I think about yheir natuaral habitats, I think of all the fish I had with hole in head until I started controling nitrates better.....

he says they breed fine and thrive, yeah but for how long.


anyways, just makin conversation

take care guys

 

[esoxlucius]

The whole nitrate thing just keeps rumbling on. Personally, after all my time in the hobby, I'm at the stage now where I don't believe it's the big bad monster people claim. It's possible that there are other unmeasurable substances in the water which are more sinister than nitrate.

But saying that, have I reduced my water change regime over the years because I think higher levels of nitrate are ok? Absolutely not. My thinking behind water changes nowadays is not primarily to reduce nitrate, but more along the lines of keeping the water fresh, replenishing trace elements and such. The clue is in the type of fish we keep, freshwater fish. Duh!

It is said that hole in the head in cichlids, the oscar in particular, is caused by stress through long term nitrate exposure. I read something the other day regarding hole in the head and nitrate wasn't even mentioned. The claim was that elevated levels of ammonia and nitrite are more likely to be the cause. It could be rubbish, there is so much stuff out there it's hard to know what to believe at times.

duanes may need hospitalising after watching that video, he's going to have a fit. He believes that nitrate, even as low as 5ppm is toxic. But I believe he bases this on his natural water way findings where he forever gets readings of 0ppm. It's each to their own on this one but all nitrate is to me is a pre cursor, an indication that my water needs freshening up, that's it.

 

[jjohnwm]

Well, we all know what the inimitable W.C.Fields said about water; he wouldn't drink it because "fish fornicate in it!"

But that's just the tip of the iceberg; they do everything in it. And never mind nitrates; everything is toxic if sufficient exposure is allowed to occur. That even includes...water!

But if you let the nitrate concentration in your tank water build up into the hundreds like this guy says...then everything else that the fish excrete or burp or fart or squirt or pinch off or in any other way introduce into the water is also accumulating at the same rate. That's all stuff that we as casual aquarists can't conveniently test for, so nitrates are actually useful because they are an easily-measured wake-up call for us, reminding us that those fish have been living in their own fecal stew for the last X number of days, weeks, months...

Even disregarding that, it seems pretty obvious IMHO that living organisms are forever excreting into their environment substances that are inimical to their health. Even if one can delude themselves into believing that they can duplicate in the tiny confines of their aquarium the natural processes that keep the water safe for fish...one of those natural processes is the constant turnover of water which takes with it all that crap. Why should that major factor be ignored? Simple: it's inconvenient, so someone will always step up and put their mouth where their money is. I don't want to change water...so I'm going to find and arrange and present "facts" that show I don't need to; that will make me sound all sciencey and smart, rather than just lazy.

Of course, there are bodies of water in nature that are geographically disadvantaged and just keep getting water added but never lose any other than to evaporation. The Dead Sea is a perfect example, and look at all the fish living in there...

...uh oh...


Kind of a shame, really, because this particular guy presents himself in an intelligent and mature fashion. No goofy movie clips or sound effects or memes; overall, he strikes me as more earnest and believable than many of the YouTube clowns out there. Too bad that what he says is just so silly.

 

[jason longboard]

The whole nitrate thing just keeps rumbling on. Personally, after all my time in the hobby, I'm at the stage now where I don't believe it's the big bad monster people claim. It's possible that there are other unmeasurable substances in the water which are more sinister than nitrate.

But saying that, have I reduced my water change regime over the years because I think higher levels of nitrate are ok? Absolutely not. My thinking behind water changes nowadays is not primarily to reduce nitrate, but more along the lines of keeping the water fresh, replenishing trace elements and such. The clue is in the type of fish we keep, freshwater fish. Duh!

It is said that hole in the head in cichlids, the oscar in particular, is caused by stress through long term nitrate exposure. I read something the other day regarding hole in the head and nitrate wasn't even mentioned. The claim was that elevated levels of ammonia and nitrite are more likely to be the cause. It could be rubbish, there is so much stuff out there it's hard to know what to believe at times.

duanes may need hospitalising after watching that video, he's going to have a fit. He believes that nitrate, even as low as 5ppm is toxic. But I believe he bases this on his natural water way findings where he forever gets readings of 0ppm. It's each to their own on this one but all nitrate is to me is a pre cursor, an indication that my water needs freshening up, that's it.

Lmao hospitalized lol love it.

yeah it rumbles on but to be fair so many noobs and veterans cross paths and so many ppl in and out of it, sharing new findings and blah blah blah, I mean it is our hobby, and lifestyle, so to enjoy the lifestyle we should embrace conversation like this, it clears your head from a crappy day at work right........I just get triggered when ppl go sooooo opposite of what we try to preach, but before are try to argue it, I like second opinions because I could be missing something.


I want all of us to love and thrive in this lifestyle and the fish to thrive.

I hear ya tho for sure.


The hospitalization part.....Im dead lmao

 

[jason longboard]

Well, we all know what the inimitable W.C.Fields said about water; he wouldn't drink it because "fish fornicate in it!"

But that's just the tip of the iceberg; they do everything in it. And never mind nitrates; everything is toxic if sufficient exposure is allowed to occur. That even includes...water!

But if you let the nitrate concentration in your tank water build up into the hundreds like this guy says...then everything else that the fish excrete or burp or fart or squirt or pinch off or in any other way introduce into the water is also accumulating at the same rate. That's all stuff that we as casual aquarists can't conveniently test for, so nitrates are actually useful because they are an easily-measured wake-up call for us, reminding us that those fish have been living in their own fecal stew for the last X number of days, weeks, months...

Even disregarding that, it seems pretty obvious IMHO that living organisms are forever excreting into their environment substances that are inimical to their health. Even if one can delude themselves into believing that they can duplicate in the tiny confines of their aquarium the natural processes that keep the water safe for fish...one of those natural processes is the constant turnover of water which takes with it all that crap. Why should that major factor be ignored? Simple: it's inconvenient, so someone will always step up and put their mouth where their money is. I don't want to change water...so I'm going to find and arrange and present "facts" that show I don't need to; that will make me sound all sciencey and smart, rather than just lazy.

Of course, there are bodies of water in nature that are geographically disadvantaged and just keep getting water added but never lose any other than to evaporation. The Dead Sea is a perfect example, and look at all the fish living in there...

...uh oh...


Kind of a shame, really, because this particular guy presents himself in an intelligent and mature fashion. No goofy movie clips or sound effects or memes; overall, he strikes me as more earnest and believable than many of the YouTube clowns out there. Too bad that what he says is just so silly.

Yeah this one had me triggered for sure, nice guy, but dang................Ive just had too much proof over the years that dont line up here.

I guess what bothers me most, is all the praise he got in the comments, all those poor tanks.

Also, you said Squirt lmao.............read that while sipping a Fosters Bitter and it bout came out my nose.

 

[HUKIT]

The problem is 95% of aquarist don’t watch fish keeping content on YouTube or post on aquarium forums except when there is a problem and they're searching for answers. Much like other moronic “content creators” like this man and Father Fish the only thing the average hobbyist will take away from it ”perfect I don’t need to do water changes” Which we all know simply isn’t true.

 

[pacu mom]

I know Im a long time keeper, but I keep coming across guys like this, and Ive not been keeping up last 5 years or so with any new discoveries.

I also know lots of you bash all the youtube guys but I know lots of them are good too, and I take lots of stuff with a grain of salt.


Anyways, but what are your thoughts on this post?

Personally I feel we should be trying to keep the numbers low as possible, I think about yheir natuaral habitats, I think of all the fish I had with hole in head until I started controling nitrates better.....

he says they breed fine and thrive, yeah but for how long.


anyways, just makin conversation

take care guys

He's full of it. Most YouTubers are on YouTube for $. There is/was (I finally blocked him so I don't know if he is still on MFK) a person who only posts on MFK to promote his channel. His content is abysmal at best. He also was on a FB fish group--until I removed him. Truthfully, anywhere online, there is more bad, erroneous information on fish keeping than good info. Anyone can be an "expert" on Wikipedia. Some of the "experts" can't even tell the difference between a red belly pacu and a black pacu resulting in erroneously labeled pictures on Wiki.

Here's an expert site for people seeking information on red belly pacu: " it is not unreasonable to expect a red bellied pacu to grow to 12 inches or more in length." Yeah right most pacu get to be around 18" at one year of age. " The optimum tank size for an adult red bellied pacu is 200 gallons " Give me a break
https://www.ratemyfishtank.com/blog/cultivating-a-tank-for-red-bellied-pacus

When our pacu joined our family 19 years ago, I joined a pacu forum to learn more about pacu. All the members were very enthusiastic about pacu keeping. The owner of the forum was not participating, and I believe his pacu had already died. The two moderators were spouting off advice such as "you can tell when to change the water by the smell". Both moderators kept their pacu in 75 gallon tanks. Their hardy, long-lived fish (potential to live 30+ years) suddenly died at around two years old. The fish deaths occurred within weeks of each other, and the pacu forum was defunct shortly after the second death, as neither moderator had a pacu. BTW, I suspect both pacu died from hydrogen sulfide poisoning (especially since neither moderator did water changes on a regular basis.)


That said, I read (online) that pacu are more sensitive to nitrogen products than their counterparts in the wild. I believe this is a true statement. One of my pacu starts looking really bad when the nitrates are around 20ppm. I use a nitrate photometer and test the water to determine how many water changes I need to do to get the nitrates less than 5ppm. The other day I started at 14 ppm and got the nitrates down to 2.2ppm.

I used this photometer that tests 0ppm to 100ppm




But switched to this more sensitive photometer that tests 0ppm to 30ppm


Nitrates are an enemy to my fish.

 

[jason longboard]

The problem is 95% of aquarist don’t watch fish keeping content on YouTube or post on aquarium forums except when there is a problem and they're searching for answers. Much like other moronic “content creators” like this man and Father Fish the only thing the average hobbyist will take away from it ”perfect I don’t need to do water changes” Which we all know simply isn’t true.

lol, yeah, Im hooked on fish channels, and clearly been on here helping and learning since 08 or something but, I just love it and it clears my head, however, you have know how to read through BS. Also, Im so tired of ppl thinking they found some miracle and they are prideful to tell the rest of us were idiots, especially over one article.

One commenter told him ohhhh thank you for busting this myth publicly........ugh shoot me

 

[HUKIT]

One commenter told him ohhhh thank you for busting this myth publicly........ugh shoot me

I didn't look at comments or watch the video past two minutes(I did read the link) but that comment proves my point.

 

[jason longboard]

He's full of it. Most YouTubers are on YouTube for $. There is/was (I finally blocked him so I don't know if he is still on MFK) a person who only posts on MFK to promote his channel. His content is abysmal at best. He also was on a FB fish group--until I removed him. Truthfully, anywhere online, there is more bad, erroneous information on fish keeping than good info. Anyone can be an "expert" on Wikipedia. Some of the "experts" can't even tell the difference between a red belly pacu and a black pacu resulting in erroneously labeled pictures on Wiki.

Here's an expert site for people seeking information on red belly pacu: " it is not unreasonable to expect a red bellied pacu to grow to 12 inches or more in length." Yeah right most pacu get to be around 18" at one year of age. " The optimum tank size for an adult red bellied pacu is 200 gallons " Give me a break
https://www.ratemyfishtank.com/blog/cultivating-a-tank-for-red-bellied-pacus

When our pacu joined our family 19 years ago, I joined a pacu forum to learn more about pacu. All the members were very enthusiastic about pacu keeping. The owner of the forum was not participating, and I believe his pacu had already died. The two moderators were spouting off advice such as "you can tell when to change the water by the smell". Both moderators kept their pacu in 75 gallon tanks. Their hardy, long-lived fish (potential to live 30+ years) suddenly died at around two years old. The fish deaths occurred within weeks of each other, and the pacu forum was defunct shortly after the second death, as neither moderator had a pacu. BTW, I suspect both pacu died from hydrogen sulfide poisoning (especially since neither moderator did water changes on a regular basis.)


That said, I read (online) that pacu are more sensitive to nitrogen products than their counterparts in the wild. I believe this is a true statement. One of my pacu starts looking really bad when the nitrates are around 20ppm. I use a nitrate photometer and test the water to determine how many water changes I need to do to get the nitrates less than 5ppm. The other day I started at 14 ppm and got the nitrates down to 2.2ppm.

I used this photometer that tests 0ppm to 100ppm
View attachment 1550377



But switched to this more sensitive photometer that tests 0ppm to 30ppm
View attachment 1550376

Nitrates are an enemy to my fish.

wow those are cool.

also, im envious of you guys with tanks big enough for pacus