120g fully automated Discus setup
- Thread starter DaveB
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Alright, good. I'm optimistic about this.
My one concern about the flexible stuff is that I might end up with a dead spot or something if it doesn't end up being a perfect path from high to low. (Like some slack in the line, so to speak.) Not worried that things won't ultimately end up flowing downhill, of course, but that some might settle and start to smell or something.
I guess I'll also have an outlet for RO waste (not sure what to call it) so there'll be enough water headed downhill that it won't be an issue.
My one concern about the flexible stuff is that I might end up with a dead spot or something if it doesn't end up being a perfect path from high to low. (Like some slack in the line, so to speak.) Not worried that things won't ultimately end up flowing downhill, of course, but that some might settle and start to smell or something.
I guess I'll also have an outlet for RO waste (not sure what to call it) so there'll be enough water headed downhill that it won't be an issue.
When I finally pick up the RO filter (I bought it from Josh in April but it's a huge pain in the ass to go pick it up and I'm lazy) I am going to be very interested in what it does to the water chemistry when blended at 50/50 70/30 etc. Because if it isn't relatively easy to deal with I'm going to scrap the RO idea and just live with Chicago tap.
Why? Because if I use all the RO drip to go into two tanks, I'll make my fish all accustomed to nice soft water. And then in the event of an emergency, if I have to drain 50%+ from a tank... then what do I fill it back up with?
I have nowhere to put a reservoir.
So that kind of kills that idea.
If it's some small amount like 33% I can store that much underneath the 120. And that's fine. But I'd need 50+ gallons of space for just the downstairs tank. At a minimum. I've got nowhere to put that.
Damn.
Why? Because if I use all the RO drip to go into two tanks, I'll make my fish all accustomed to nice soft water. And then in the event of an emergency, if I have to drain 50%+ from a tank... then what do I fill it back up with?
I have nowhere to put a reservoir.
So that kind of kills that idea.
If it's some small amount like 33% I can store that much underneath the 120. And that's fine. But I'd need 50+ gallons of space for just the downstairs tank. At a minimum. I've got nowhere to put that.
Damn.
From what I understand, its not so much the PH that discus don't like as much as hardness. Thats a much more difficult (expensive/time consuming) parameter to lower than PH.
The following is not my writing, its from http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html. I suggest reading the entire article, its got some great information.
Some fish (e.g., discus, cardinal tetras, etc.) prefer soft water. Although they can survive in harder water, they are unlikely to breed in it. Thus, you may feel compelled to soften your water despite the hassle involved in doing so.
Typical home water softeners soften water using a technique known as ``ion exchange''. That is, they remove calcium and magnesium ions by replacing them with sodium ions. Although this does technically make water softer, most fish won't notice the difference. That is, fish that prefer soft water don't like sodium either, and for them such water softeners don't help at all. Thus, home water softeners are not an appropriate way to soften water for aquarium use.
Fish stores also market ``water softening pillows''. They use the same ion-exchange principle. One ``recharges'' the pillow by soaking it in a salt water solution, then places it in the tank where the sodium ions are released into the water and replaced by calcium and magnesium ions. After a few hours or days, the pillow (along with the calcium and magnesium) are removed, and the pillow recharged. The pillows sold in stores are too small to work well in practice, and shouldn't be used for the same reason cited above.
Peat moss softens water and reduces its hardness (GH). The most effective way to soften water via peat is to aerate water for 1-2 weeks in a bucket containing peat moss. For example, get a (plastic) bucket of the appropriate size. Then, get a large quantity of peat (a gallon or more), boil it (so that it sinks), stuff it in a pillow case, and place it in the water bucket. Use an air pump to aerate it. In 1-2 weeks, the water will be softer and more acidic. Use this aged water when making partial water changes on your tank.
Peat can be bought at pet shops, but it is expensive. It is much more cost-effective to buy it in bulk at a local gardening shop. Read labels carefully! You don't want to use peat containing fertilizers or other additives.
Although some folks place peat in the filters of their tanks, the technique has a number of drawbacks. First, peat clogs easily, so adding peat isn't always effective. Second, peat can be messy and may cloud the water in your tank. Third, the exact quantity of peat needed to effectively soften your water is difficult to estimate. Using the wrong amount results in the wrong water chemistry. Finally, when doing water changes, your tank's chemistry changes when new water is added (it has the wrong properties). Over the next few days, the chemistry changes as the peat takes effect. Using aged water helps ensure that the chemistry of your tank doesn't fluctuate while doing water changes.
Hard water can also be softened by diluting it with distilled water or R/O water. R/O (reverse-osmosis) water is purified water made by a R/O unit. Unfortunately, R/O units are too expensive ($100-$500) for most hobbyists. R/O water can also be purchased at some fish stores, but for most folks the expense and hassle are not worth it. The same applies to distilled water purchased at grocery stores.
The following is not my writing, its from http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html. I suggest reading the entire article, its got some great information.
Some fish (e.g., discus, cardinal tetras, etc.) prefer soft water. Although they can survive in harder water, they are unlikely to breed in it. Thus, you may feel compelled to soften your water despite the hassle involved in doing so.
Typical home water softeners soften water using a technique known as ``ion exchange''. That is, they remove calcium and magnesium ions by replacing them with sodium ions. Although this does technically make water softer, most fish won't notice the difference. That is, fish that prefer soft water don't like sodium either, and for them such water softeners don't help at all. Thus, home water softeners are not an appropriate way to soften water for aquarium use.
Fish stores also market ``water softening pillows''. They use the same ion-exchange principle. One ``recharges'' the pillow by soaking it in a salt water solution, then places it in the tank where the sodium ions are released into the water and replaced by calcium and magnesium ions. After a few hours or days, the pillow (along with the calcium and magnesium) are removed, and the pillow recharged. The pillows sold in stores are too small to work well in practice, and shouldn't be used for the same reason cited above.
Peat moss softens water and reduces its hardness (GH). The most effective way to soften water via peat is to aerate water for 1-2 weeks in a bucket containing peat moss. For example, get a (plastic) bucket of the appropriate size. Then, get a large quantity of peat (a gallon or more), boil it (so that it sinks), stuff it in a pillow case, and place it in the water bucket. Use an air pump to aerate it. In 1-2 weeks, the water will be softer and more acidic. Use this aged water when making partial water changes on your tank.
Peat can be bought at pet shops, but it is expensive. It is much more cost-effective to buy it in bulk at a local gardening shop. Read labels carefully! You don't want to use peat containing fertilizers or other additives.
Although some folks place peat in the filters of their tanks, the technique has a number of drawbacks. First, peat clogs easily, so adding peat isn't always effective. Second, peat can be messy and may cloud the water in your tank. Third, the exact quantity of peat needed to effectively soften your water is difficult to estimate. Using the wrong amount results in the wrong water chemistry. Finally, when doing water changes, your tank's chemistry changes when new water is added (it has the wrong properties). Over the next few days, the chemistry changes as the peat takes effect. Using aged water helps ensure that the chemistry of your tank doesn't fluctuate while doing water changes.
Hard water can also be softened by diluting it with distilled water or R/O water. R/O (reverse-osmosis) water is purified water made by a R/O unit. Unfortunately, R/O units are too expensive ($100-$500) for most hobbyists. R/O water can also be purchased at some fish stores, but for most folks the expense and hassle are not worth it. The same applies to distilled water purchased at grocery stores.
I did some messing around with plumbing and the sump today. Let me tell you, it's nice having a waterproof acrylic stand. I was free to splash about and overflow the sump without any worries for my floor. Once I install a light under the stand I'll be in great shape for some trial and error learning about all this stuff.
Anyway, the only pump I have right now is a QuietOne 1200 and it's either broken or not powerful enough to handle the head. So I just had to drain things again. But considering that I put almost no effort into tightening the bulkheads and setting things up, things did pretty well. There's definitely a leak somewhere in the pieces for the bottom of the standpipe, but it leaks into the tubing, not the outside, so it's no big deal (though it'd still drain the overflow slowly in the event of a power outage). What I'm finding that I don't like is the central location of the return, which seems a touch low to me. Unless I point the locline basically straight up, it's submerged enough to drain several extra gallons into the sump if things shut off. I suppose a valve could be useful in this case.
(I'm off to Indy for the weekend. Don't suppose any of you Indy folks has a pump that'd be appropriate for this tank...)
Anyway, the only pump I have right now is a QuietOne 1200 and it's either broken or not powerful enough to handle the head. So I just had to drain things again. But considering that I put almost no effort into tightening the bulkheads and setting things up, things did pretty well. There's definitely a leak somewhere in the pieces for the bottom of the standpipe, but it leaks into the tubing, not the outside, so it's no big deal (though it'd still drain the overflow slowly in the event of a power outage). What I'm finding that I don't like is the central location of the return, which seems a touch low to me. Unless I point the locline basically straight up, it's submerged enough to drain several extra gallons into the sump if things shut off. I suppose a valve could be useful in this case.
(I'm off to Indy for the weekend. Don't suppose any of you Indy folks has a pump that'd be appropriate for this tank...)
I was going to wait til all the RO and plumbing was set up, but this guy was living in Chicago tap, looked healthy, and was a great bargain. So I dropped him in with the Arowana and a few eartheaters. He'll eventually move upstairs to his new home...
So far he seems OK after the move. The picture is crap but the lights were off and I can't get a good angle with that tank in the hallway. The other pics are of his future home, which temporarily houses the Uaru (for eyeballing the size... they're all 5-6" not including tail... and look small when they're in the back half of the tank).
So far he seems OK after the move. The picture is crap but the lights were off and I can't get a good angle with that tank in the hallway. The other pics are of his future home, which temporarily houses the Uaru (for eyeballing the size... they're all 5-6" not including tail... and look small when they're in the back half of the tank).
It's dumb having two threads going together. All future long-winded updates will be here:
Dave's 220 plumbing and setup adventure
Mods, might as well lock this thread...
Dave's 220 plumbing and setup adventure
Mods, might as well lock this thread...
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