Yes, but for everyone you kill and share with us helps save a hundred out there in MFK.
2' Yellowcheek aka Elopichthys bambusa, 1 for 5 so far...
- Thread starter thebiggerthebetter
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Yes, but for everyone you kill and share with us helps save a hundred out there in MFK.
Ok. A try #3 has been under way for a while now. I again got 3 cheeks from Wes in January 2019. And again I was too lazy and / or took the risks of cohabbing them with some other fish, which shouldn't have preyed on them but yet one disappeared. Hence the two remaining ones went behind a tank divider for half a year. Then they graduated into a minnow 240 gal.
I think I mentioned how skittish they are more than a few times. It makes it even hard to feed them as they wanna swim away from you through glass.
One grew markedly faster than the other and for some reason it developed a double gill curl or some such disorder where both gill plates are flared out. I think it is genetic. What do you think, Wes? @fugupuff The smaller one's gills look fine.
I think they are about 9" and 7" currently. A video update on them and their tank mates:
I think I mentioned how skittish they are more than a few times. It makes it even hard to feed them as they wanna swim away from you through glass.
One grew markedly faster than the other and for some reason it developed a double gill curl or some such disorder where both gill plates are flared out. I think it is genetic. What do you think, Wes? @fugupuff The smaller one's gills look fine.
I think they are about 9" and 7" currently. A video update on them and their tank mates:
The yellowcheeks have gone into the 25K cyprinid exhibit one by one. They have been there for a few months now.
It doesn't look like the bigger one will last mucha and it doesn't look to be anyone's fault, not of its tank mates, nor mine. It started out ok but little by little it has been developing a bad crescent curvature in its back, which taken with its badly warped gill plates leads me to think this is genetic junk. It has trouble swimming now.
The smaller one doesn't seem to grow at all for the most of last year and its appetite is present but it is nothing like that of my first cheeks that grew to 2'+. It also has a bit of curvature but in the opposite direction and it has some kind of pouch / protrusion in the lower jaw. I believe this one to be a genetic junk too.
I think Wes @fugupuff had been dealt bad seeds in that yellowcheek batch, even though they looked just normal when I got them at 3"-4". Wes couldn't tell, of course. I texted him about this problem but he must have been busy and didn't reply. I've not done anything different raising this pair except more care versus the first pair and this has been turning out bad. I still have a smidge of hope for the smaller cheek but I'd not be surprised at all if nothing good grew from it.
It doesn't look like the bigger one will last mucha and it doesn't look to be anyone's fault, not of its tank mates, nor mine. It started out ok but little by little it has been developing a bad crescent curvature in its back, which taken with its badly warped gill plates leads me to think this is genetic junk. It has trouble swimming now.
The smaller one doesn't seem to grow at all for the most of last year and its appetite is present but it is nothing like that of my first cheeks that grew to 2'+. It also has a bit of curvature but in the opposite direction and it has some kind of pouch / protrusion in the lower jaw. I believe this one to be a genetic junk too.
I think Wes @fugupuff had been dealt bad seeds in that yellowcheek batch, even though they looked just normal when I got them at 3"-4". Wes couldn't tell, of course. I texted him about this problem but he must have been busy and didn't reply. I've not done anything different raising this pair except more care versus the first pair and this has been turning out bad. I still have a smidge of hope for the smaller cheek but I'd not be surprised at all if nothing good grew from it.
As just forewarned a few days back, we lost our biggest cheek in the 25K. No funny business from tank mates but all internal / inherent problems. It feels neurological to me because the fish gradually, over the past months, lost the ability to hold upright, swim right, or even maintain the body shape - the muscles were like mush and the backbone felt like a rope, not upheld by tendons and muscles.
In water, it had a crescent shape, just like in the photo, except in the other direction with head and tail pointing down. It stopped feeding or feeding well some weeks ago.
You can also see the badly misshapen gill plates on it, which it had developed on its own long ago, still at about 6"-9".
Final size 17" at 1.5 years old.
The only remaining cheek is probably 12", still in the 25K, doing seemingly well but I have no hope for it - it's not growing much, it seems to have a concave, non-straight top from head to dorsal fin, and seems to have some protrusion in the lower jaw.
In water, it had a crescent shape, just like in the photo, except in the other direction with head and tail pointing down. It stopped feeding or feeding well some weeks ago.
You can also see the badly misshapen gill plates on it, which it had developed on its own long ago, still at about 6"-9".
Final size 17" at 1.5 years old.
The only remaining cheek is probably 12", still in the 25K, doing seemingly well but I have no hope for it - it's not growing much, it seems to have a concave, non-straight top from head to dorsal fin, and seems to have some protrusion in the lower jaw.
Not a scientist by any means, but I have a hunch that these fish need adequate UV to grow and function properly on top of the high oxygen levels in their water. The arch and misshapen gills made me think of reptiles in underutilized UV output terrariums that get MBD.
Idk, just an idea.
Idk, just an idea.
Hypoxia has been known to cause gill curling, mouth and skeletal deformities in hatcheries. I have some trout parr I got from a hatchery and their behaviour is now completely different since I've added an additional ~6000 gph to their 145 growout. They no longer roam the tank or swim against the glass, instead they hold up near structure and zip in and out of the current to grab potential food particles.
I feel that high flow riverine species require a lot more current (and as a result higher dissolved O2) for proper development than most hobbyists would think and in this regard marine keepers are ahead of the curve. While perhaps not comparable in absolute values to the ocean, large lakes and rivers still have very complex and strong currents yet I rarely see freshwater enthusiasts put any emphasis on current beyond their filters and maybe the odd powerhead. I've seen posts debating whether a fluval fx5 (~500 gph with media) is too much flow for a 75g cichlid tank while my 45g trout fry tank had over 2k gph and before they moved to the 140 at around 2.5" I felt they could have used more.
Not saying that this is the cause for your unfortunate issues with E. bambusa but maybe food for thought?
I feel that high flow riverine species require a lot more current (and as a result higher dissolved O2) for proper development than most hobbyists would think and in this regard marine keepers are ahead of the curve. While perhaps not comparable in absolute values to the ocean, large lakes and rivers still have very complex and strong currents yet I rarely see freshwater enthusiasts put any emphasis on current beyond their filters and maybe the odd powerhead. I've seen posts debating whether a fluval fx5 (~500 gph with media) is too much flow for a 75g cichlid tank while my 45g trout fry tank had over 2k gph and before they moved to the 140 at around 2.5" I felt they could have used more.
Not saying that this is the cause for your unfortunate issues with E. bambusa but maybe food for thought?
Thank you so much for that, mate! I think this is a real possibility. As I have found out recently, the pumps that were supplying the tanks that held the cheeks have been under-pumping as crud blocked much of the intake screen and I couldn't see it until I pulled the pumps out recently.
These tanks are 240 gal and not quote full, so about 180-200 gal of water. The pumps deliver 2500 GPH when clean. In this partly blocked condition it could have been as low as 1250 GPH. IDK if this is too low and I've not measured DO in the tanks in a long while, but there is a qualitative cause and effect relation which can explain this enigmatic thing for me as to why the prior pair of cheeks thrived while this pair withered. Again, human operator error...
EDIT: forgot to mention that as the bigger cheek was developing the gill deformation, the cheeks were also behind a fine-mesh divider, like an insect screen fine, so they received an even weaker flow of the overall weakened pump output. So the hypoxia hypothesis gains more strength.
Update on the surviving one yellowcheek. It has that nasty bend / dip between the head and the dorsal fin, which, I agree with Umbra (can't thank you enough again), is my fault and the result of hypoxia at young age. Since wels catfish went into the 25K, the cheek had to be removed back into one of the 240 gal, where it settled in and now feeds with an enviable vigor and gusto, as is typical of cheeks, they are voracious feeders when comfortable.
Probably around 16"-18" currently. The only tank mate is a small scale mud carp Cirrhinus microlepis, ~12", not counting a common pleco.
Probably around 16"-18" currently. The only tank mate is a small scale mud carp Cirrhinus microlepis, ~12", not counting a common pleco.